(September 13, 2018 at 11:05 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: And here you explicitly admit that you do indeed follow an organized religion. How is that not the very definition of being religious?

‘Cos reasons, Jor.

(September 13, 2018 at 10:50 am)robvalue Wrote: Rik is a really bad advocate for his beliefs because the atheists here generally behave in a way that karma would reward more favourably than him. Clearly it doesn’t make him “moral”, nor does he believe his own dogma. How on Earth he expects us to, I don’t know.

This is also true of most religious visitors we get, although I’m aware they aren’t representative.

Everybody advocate his own beliefs.
Atheists advocate the story that nobody create or run the universe or that the consciousness is a product of the brain among other beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with advocating one belief as far as such a belief carry some evidence.
My guess however is that my beliefs carry a lot more evidence then yours.      

The forum is all about clashing one belief against the other.
If you don't like the clash then you should find a club where everybody got the same ideas and style of life.  

(color mine)

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(September 13, 2018 at 11:05 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(September 13, 2018 at 9:41 am)Little Rik Wrote: When I ever mention the name of the organization that I follow?

And here you explicitly admit that you do indeed follow an organized religion.   How is that not the very definition of being religious?

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.  Any more questions about duckology?

Once again you try to show that you know what a religion is and at the same time refuse to explain   what is the difference between religion and spirituality.
Who you think you can fool yog?

Not me anyway.  

By the way yog.
An organization is.................an organized group of people with a particular purpose, such as a business or government department.

https://www.google.com/search?q=organiza...refox-b-ab

By thinking that an organization is a religion you once again show how stupid you are.  

(September 13, 2018 at 11:21 am)Little Rik Wrote: Atheists advocate the story that nobody create or run the universe or that the consciousness is a product of the brain among other beliefs.

Base assertions, leading/loaded questions, and generalizations. This quote being the latter. Haven’t been active in the last two years, but I see it’s ever the same old song and dance for you Rik.

Atheists as a group agree on one thing Rik, the lack of belief in a deity figure, and even to that you’ll find varying degrees on what kind of descriptions they hold it to (agnosticism/gnosticism). I’m sure you knew that though.

(September 13, 2018 at 11:21 am)Little Rik Wrote: Who you think you can fool yog?

Not me anyway.  

It may depends on what you mean by the word cult. The problem becomes when you start to equivocate, and in many instances, if your context isn’t clear, people may think you are saying something else.

(September 13, 2018 at 6:23 am)Aroura Wrote:

(September 13, 2018 at 4:19 am)Mathilda Wrote: My brother has joined a cult now, although he denies that it is a cult. IIRC he says that a cult is devoted to a single person. It's called The Last Reformation. But a lot of Xtians refer to his group as a cult. It does not have established churches but tries to get back to the initial days of Xtianity when there were no religious hierarchies and structures.

He has changed as a result of joining it. I used to be able to have good conversations with him if we stayed away fro religion. Now he has become even more zealous and the only thing he thinks and talks about is religion.

That's really terrible!  I'm truly sorry to hear that.  That level of brainwashing and indoctrination is scary to see in a loved one.  I hope he finds his way out, someday.

Thanks. Oh the leader has got a link on rationalwiki now.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Torben_S%C3%B8ndergaard

I only meet my brother now when I visit my parents. I don't know if my mum is scared of alienating my brother but it normally happens that he brings up religion and I (or my husband which also means me by association) get the blame for starting an argument. This despite clearly and explicitly telling my brother that we do not want to talk about the subject. Last time I got the blame when I discussed my scientific research and my brother objected to it. I got the blame because religion hadn't even been mentioned. I understand that my mother doesn't want to lose her son, but it ironically means that I never actually bother visiting anymore.

What's more, because he is always working on something in his spare time to promote his cult, he ends up asking everyone for advice on how best to achieve this, whether it's a T-shirt design, essay or book cover. But he never accepts advice so you have to argue it. I'm actually morally opposed to deliberately spreading ignorance, so I am most certainly not going to push for the best ways of doing it. I'm a scientist. My career is devoted to better understanding the nature of reality. Yet last time he basically lied to me about what he was working on to get my advice, so I can't even trust him anymore. Of course because he's always been so honest in the past my mother didn't acknowledge this at all.

It's not like I really have much family but it's got to the point where now I am more concerned about having to walk on egg shells around him than anything else.

Seriously sorry to hear you’ve gotta deal with that, basically losing family to cult activity has to be incredibly rough and frustrating. I hope it gets better in some way.

I've always though of a cult as 'none mainstream religious belief or thought' .

Then I think about what it means to be truly part of that religion, and in the case of christianity i think it's pretty well defined. I also think it has to be more than a passing nod to the beliefs it holds to be a member, and I expect a certain clearly seen adherence to it's rules and regulations (ie: actually going to church, or not re-marrying after divorce etc. and keeping the basic rules and beliefs of christianity)

As soon as i apply those rules it's clear to see that not many at all follow christianity in their practical everyday lives, in that respect it can be called a cult.

(September 13, 2018 at 4:05 am)Kit Wrote:

Quote:cult
[kuhlt]

noun

a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers:

Religion is just a cult with more followers.

Yeah, the definition of a religion: a cult grown too large for the leader to be personally known to tue followers.

In the wikipedia page it says cult is a subjective term and can be controversial because of that and the fact that it has derogatory connotations.

That probably best describes how I use the word, if I called a group a cult it wouldn't be a literal, scientific definition in the sense I can prove they are a cult or prove another group is not a cult.

It's a bit like calling someone weird, the person might be weird to me and my friends but then he comes from a town where he is normal.

I don't think religions like Islam or Christianity are cults because they're mainstream religions around me which I'm used to.  It's not novel to me or deviant from the mainstream.  All the definitions of cult that I've seen place emphasis on some deviation from the mainstream, a small group or just a group in general who are considered to novel beliefs and practices.

I don't use the term to describe fans of something, and I wouldn't say someone is in a cult if they are a fan of something, that's just not how I or anyone else I know would use the word unless it was jokingly. 

I use phrases like "cult following" to describe something that has what I consider to be a small but loyal group of fans.  Like for example Troma films, the toxic avenger and so on.  I would say they aren't mainstream and they have a cult following.  I wouldn't say someone is literally in a cult for being one of the fans who likes them though.

In relation to the last 3 questions.

I don't have a strict definition of cult.  I just use the word pretty much in accordance to how I think most other people use it.  A subjective term with possible derogatory connotations.

I do believe all religions began as small, non mainstream groups that were considered to be weird/deviant/novel.

As for cults I'm a part of, even when using the word "devoted fan" and "cult" interchangeably I can't think of anything.  All TV shows, games, books, I dedicate time to them while they entertain me then forget about them when I'm done.  And I'm an atheist so religion doesn't come into it.