Let's assume we're in a secular country (in theory or in practice). Feel free to comment on how answers would vary across different countries. We have interactions between religion and the law, and I'm concerned here about how this works on a personal level.

1) Informally, what constitutes a religious belief? How is it any different from a regular belief? What elements must it have, other than calling it a religious belief?

2) Legally, what constitutes a religious belief?

3) Are there situations in which I would be legally allowed to perform some sort of action/ritual because of a religious belief, where I wouldn't be allowed to do something similar just because I feel like it? If so, is that justified? If not, what's the point of the law?

Beliefs are different to religious actions...
The law doesn't really give 2 shits what beliefs you have as long as you abide with the juristiction's legal laws...

I think that's what you meant ?

---

Rob, I was going to post this in a fresh thread but it may be relevant here...

Yesterday on the ABS going home, I heard that they're trying to pass a bill to nullify the confidentiality between a confessor and a representative of the church.
About fucking time! Otherwise we're quietly admitting that the church is a law unto itself... The catalyst for this of course is all the pedos being exposed and people like George Pell who know but still said/did nothing...

Very much agreed on that last point!

My question is about where religion actual comes into the law at all. Why say I have a legal right to go mumble in the corner or whatever, or put my hands together and talk to the wall, if I'm allowed to just do those things anyway? Like you say, as long as I'm obeying the law, what's the difference? Is there a time my "religious action" has special protection that my regular ones don't?

(I'm not talking so much about organizations getting free passes and tax dodges which is another whole issue in itself.)

You know what, Rob? Sod you. You come in here with these master thesis type questions. Why don't you ever ask normal stuff, like 'What is krptonite?' or 'Who played Clemenza?'.

Get it together, mate.

Boru

Read the title and thought Rob went all negatio on us.

What makes Scientology a religion in some countries and not in others? Comes down to what your countries courts define religion. 

I remember people drinking ETOH in church in a town with a blue law. That sounds like special protection.

I don't know what that drink is, but it does indeed sound like an example of what I'm talking about. Why should they get to break the law? I'm confused as to how this can all possibly work without discriminating against non-religious people.

(September 20, 2018 at 3:08 am)robvalue Wrote: Let's assume we're in a secular country (in theory or in practice). Feel free to comment on how answers would vary across different countries. We have interactions between religion and the law, and I'm concerned here about how this works on a personal level.

1) Informally, what constitutes a religious belief? How is it any different from a regular belief? What elements must it have, other than calling it a religious belief?

2) Legally, what constitutes a religious belief?

It tends to be easier to identify common traits among paradigm cases than to establish it from a definitional or a priori standpoint. To that end, most definitions of religion with respect to law tend to be circular. Religion is what the religious do. The religious are religious because they follow a religion. And around and around it goes. Frameworks like Ninian Smart's seven dimensions of religion are helpful, but ultimately that too is simply reasoning from paradigm cases. As Ed Meese remarked of pornography, the standard appears to be, "I'll know it when I see it."

(September 20, 2018 at 7:45 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(September 20, 2018 at 3:08 am)robvalue Wrote: Let's assume we're in a secular country (in theory or in practice). Feel free to comment on how answers would vary across different countries. We have interactions between religion and the law, and I'm concerned here about how this works on a personal level.

1) Informally, what constitutes a religious belief? How is it any different from a regular belief? What elements must it have, other than calling it a religious belief?

2) Legally, what constitutes a religious belief?

It tends to be easier to identify common traits among paradigm cases than to establish it from a definitional or a priori standpoint.  To that end, most definitions of religion with respect to law tend to be circular.  Religion is what the religious do.  The religious are religious because they follow a religion.  And around and around it goes.  Frameworks like Ninian Smart's seven dimensions of religion are helpful, but ultimately that too is simply reasoning from paradigm cases.  As Ed Meese remarked of pornography, the standard appears to be, "I'll know it when I see it."

That's how I see it as well, which is why I find it so confusing. I suppose I could put it the other way: what would not be allowed to be a religious belief under the law? I can call literally any belief I have my religious belief, and it seems it would be maximally beneficial for me to do so. I choose not to call any of my beliefs religious, because to me it sounds like erecting a barrier, as I've mentioned before. I want my beliefs to all be publically open to scrutiny.

Last I heard, in the USA they do in fact decide what counts as a religion and what doesn't for tax purposes, based on number of adherents and some other factors. That's bulllshit as far as I'm concerned.

(September 20, 2018 at 7:45 am)robvalue Wrote: I don't know what that drink is, but it does indeed sound like an example of what I'm talking about. Why should they get to break the law? I'm confused as to how this can all possibly work without discriminating against non-religious people.

ETOH = ethyl alcohol. 

Is it break a law or granted exemption from a law?

It does discriminate against the non religious. Think of taxes and free community services (police, fire, roads.........)

(September 20, 2018 at 6:14 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: You know what, Rob? Sod you. You come in here with these master thesis type questions. Why don't you ever ask normal stuff, like 'What is krptonite?' or 'Who played Clemenza?'.

Get it together, mate.

Boru

I have forwarded your feedback to my R&D team. Please expect a response within the next 5-6 minutes.