I've seen the point mentioned that people should tip because "wait staff don't make minimum wage" if you don't. This is untrue: https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Quote:If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the Federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

Just an FYI.

Personally I'm of the opinion that the person providing the service should set a reasonable price based on that service. Tipping should be reserved only for exceptional / "above and beyond" service. It shouldn't be expected, it shouldn't be "required". Luckily the price of food in America is damn cheap, so an extra 10-20% on top of the bill really isn't that much. I tip because it's what society expects.

When service is truly awful, I've left no tip, and I don't feel any guilt doing that. Part of the expectation of you (service staff) receiving a tip from me (the customer) is that you perform your job to a certain standard. If you do, I'll give you a 10-15% tip (if it's exceptional service I'll tip 20-25%), but if you don't, I'm not going to reward you for failing.

(September 26, 2018 at 10:57 am)Tiberius Wrote: I've seen the point mentioned that people should tip because "wait staff don't make minimum wage" if you don't. This is untrue: https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Quote:If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the Federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

Just an FYI.

Personally I'm of the opinion that the person providing the service should set a reasonable price based on that service. Tipping should be reserved only for exceptional / "above and beyond" service. It shouldn't be expected, it shouldn't be "required". Luckily the price of food in America is damn cheap, so an extra 10-20% on top of the bill really isn't that much. I tip because it's what society expects.

When service is truly awful, I've left no tip, and I don't feel any guilt doing that. Part of the expectation of you (service staff) receiving a tip from me (the customer) is that you perform your job to a certain standard. If you do, I'll give you a 10-15% tip (if it's exceptional service I'll tip 20-25%), but if you don't, I'm not going to reward you for failing.

Yes that is the law, but how many servers do you know are actually going to tell their employers how much tips in cash they received? Most of the time, people put tips on their credit cards, which is why paychecks are so low. I speak from experience myself. 

Also - I agree with you when service is just shitty - you get no tip. If a server knows they have to rely on their tips for a living, one would think they would give stellar service in order to receive better tips. If they are some college kid and they really don't care because they live with the parentals - don't expect better service. 

When I go out to eat, I actually prefer waitstaff who are more mature. They take their work ethics a little more seriously than teens and college kids do, tbh.

(September 26, 2018 at 2:21 am)Tiberius Wrote: There are good arguments on both sides of the tipping debate, but can we all at least agree that the state of tipping in America is mostly caused by owners not paying their workers adequate wages?

True but let's not forget that the laws in this country allow them to get away with it and let's face it; the laws are written by the business criminal asshole class via their lobbyists.

(September 26, 2018 at 11:04 am)Joods Wrote: Yes that is the law, but how many servers do you know are actually going to tell their employers how much tips in cash they received? Most of the time, people put tips on their credit cards, which is why paychecks are so low. I speak from experience myself.

This point actually supports my argument. If a server doesn't tell their employer their cash tips, then their hourly pay will be less (in the eyes of the employer), which means they get more money from the employer as the employer has to bump up their pay to reach minimum wage levels. This would actually be abuse of the system by the server.

Unless I'm mistaken, credit card tips are taken off at a later date, and they are recorded on the restaurant receipt, which would list the server's name, so the server should (by law) get that tip.

(September 26, 2018 at 11:16 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(September 26, 2018 at 11:04 am)Joods Wrote: Yes that is the law, but how many servers do you know are actually going to tell their employers how much tips in cash they received? Most of the time, people put tips on their credit cards, which is why paychecks are so low. I speak from experience myself.

This point actually supports my argument. If a server doesn't tell their employer their cash tips, then their hourly pay will be less (in the eyes of the employer), which means they get more money from the employer as the employer has to bump up their pay to reach minimum wage levels. This would actually be abuse of the system by the server.

Unless I'm mistaken, credit card tips are taken off at a later date, and they are recorded on the restaurant receipt, which would list the server's name, so the server should (by law) get that tip.

Oh I didn't disagree with you. 

As for credit card tips - it depends on the restaurant owner. Some servers get them once a week. Others get them at the end of each day and still others get them in their paychecks. The salon I worked at would give them to you in your paycheck, after they took taxes out of them. That's why I would tell my clients if they preferred to tip in cash, I wouldn't mind.

I seem to recall a story about a restaurant (in Seattle?  maybe?) that raised their employees' pay to $15/hour, raised their prices, and then put signs out telling customers that tipping was banned.

I wonder if I can find it?

(September 26, 2018 at 11:20 am)Minimalist Wrote: I seem to recall a story about a restaurant (in Seattle?  maybe?) that raised their employees' pay to $15/hour, raised their prices, and then put signs out telling customers that tipping was banned.

I wonder if I can find it?

I guess doing it that way, it would all even out in the end. However, if a table of 8 sits down and creates a $300 bill, the wait staff should get a standard 18% gratuity. In this case, the server should get way more than the $15 an hour the employee gives. Especially if the server is running all over the place and constantly giving that one table most of their attention. 

If you look at  most menus, at the bottom or on the back somewhere it will specifically state that parties of XX or more will be subjected to a gratuity and that checks cannot be separated.

(September 26, 2018 at 11:20 am)Minimalist Wrote: and then put signs out telling customers that tipping was banned.

...and Americans being stubborn bastards who hate being told what not to do, probably tipped anyway.

Again, I'm going strictly from memory but yeah.... there was some of that.

"Don't tell me what to do.... I'm a 'Murrican."

Honestly I think we should get rid of tipping altogether and all businesses should be required to pay a living wage.