I'm never going to be ok with someone other than myself or my child's mother administering corporal punishment. I'm not absolutely opposed to spanking, but I do feel its a measure of last resort. If I felt I needed to spank my child, it would be due to a parenting failure on my part. In 9 1/2 years, I've not spanked him and I don't see that changing.
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Beating Children
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My grandpa whipped me with a belt on my ass starting when I was three. It didn't teach me any lessons about inappropriate behavior and now I hate his guts. Since he is still my grandpa, I do love him, but at the same time, I hate his guts.
My parents spanked me and it was ineffective to say the least, especially compared to the anger by dad was visibly choking down as he yelled at me. That scared the hell out of me. To my dad's credit, he was that way because he was determined to not beat me the way his parents beat him(if my grandpa hit me with a belt at age three I can only imagine what he did to his first born son). I will try to refrain from spanking my kid because I see it as counterproductive, but I say this as he is only seven months old. Sometimes things don't work out the way we have them planned, so I won't say I will never do it. I will, however, try my damnedest not to.
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To be clear, I do think there are extreme occasions that require a physical wake up call. For example, I was swimming in the ocean with my stepson when he was five. He thought he saw a jellyfish, grabbed me and freaked out. Luckily, I was able to pull us into shallower water, but I was about five seconds from giving him a slap to reality, but that was a situation where we both would have drowned if he hadn't calmed down or I managed to get control of the arm he was holding down with his body. The latter happened, but I can definitely see the need for a smack in a situation like that. Nonetheless, anything save physical harm is more desirable.
RE: Beating Children
September 23, 2011 at 8:09 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2011 at 8:10 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 23, 2011 at 7:22 pm)Shell B Wrote: Nonetheless, anything save physical harm is more desirable. As a rule, for me anyways, yes. I also agree that a smack is a sign of failure in some other area (should have seen that coming, removed a potential weapon etc, but I miss things time to time, and the spanks are the aftermath).
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The bible does say that if we spare the rod we spoil the child. This is a reference to punishment (not brutality) we all know that children can be punished in plenty of ways without violence. Sparing a child refers to when we tell a child that we will punish them for the wrong they are doing and don't follow through with it. Then the child will be spoiled, they'll walk all over their parents with no repercussions. Using the rod doesnt mean we need to beat kids, it means we must punish and in modern day language thats: timeout, going to bed with no dinner, no cell phone, no television, maybe a spanking etc. I'm totally against the idea of teachers hitting children, I think they should make them clean the school, do more homework and do community service. Usually physical labor is enough punishment for them.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6
 RE: Beating Children
September 23, 2011 at 10:27 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2011 at 10:33 pm by KichigaiNeko.)
(September 23, 2011 at 1:52 am)Shell B Wrote: "The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
Sorry, I just don't believe you can justify smacking a child anywhere on their body for any other reason than to save their very lives or from a painful accident. (ie. Shell B's water incident or in the unlikely even of Rhythm's grenade scenario ... you get the idea)
Here's why. Abrupt physical contact does get their attention in the event that you need an immediate cease to their current activity, but this doesn't need to cause actual pain - only a sharp jolt to redirect attention. Hell, just giving a child a quick jerk by the arm and bringing them face to face will often produce the desired result. A spanking (or a beating, if you will) is meant to cause pain. It's sole purpose is for the child to associate a certain activity with a painful result. Therefore, in order for a spanking to work - it has to be, by very definition, somewhat brutal ... something the child, absolutely does not want to happen again. A spanking that is "appropriate" (doesn't cause any significant pain) does not do the job intended and therefore does not really exist. In other words, if you're not causing any negative reaction from the child (crying due to pain) than you're not giving a spanking - you're merely pestering your little one, and the punishment is meaningless. What you're left with is millions of parents grappling with exactly how hard to beat their child. It's BULL SHIT!! If parents did their god damn job from day one, there would be no need to beat a child. Oh and by the way, if you're kid is pushing his sibling down the stairs, the LAST thing you want is to give that child a beating. That child obviously already has a propensity for violent behavior and hitting them is NOT the lesson they need at that point. My sister's son is 18. He's never been spanked a day in his life. He is the sweetest, kindest, most thoughtful 18 year old I have EVER met. FAR FAR better than I ever was when I was 18, and my dad beat me weekly throughout my childhood. Anyway, sorry bout the rant. Unless you're going to beat the shit out of your kids, spankings are pointless and I personally think that its a lazy stupid adult that can't come up with something that works 10x better without an ounce of physical pain. ![[Image: Evolution.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk619%2Fjcincain%2FPublic%2FEvolution.png)  (September 24, 2011 at 1:43 am)Cinjin Wrote: I agree with everything that you wrote, Cinjin, except for this part of your post. I mean, why does a spanking have to be brutal for it to work? Also, you said that spankings are pointless "unless you're going to beat the shit out of your kids." But in my opinion, I think it can be less brutal than that and still work sometimes (if not always). I don't think that a spanking is meant to cause pain nor make the child associate a certain activity only with pain, as you said. Why? Because there is also a psychological element behind it (and I'm sure that you already know this) which seems to have the greatest impact on children and this psychological element can be present in many, varying degrees of brutality. Therefore, a spanking can be softer and yet have an effect on the child's behavior as opposed to a harder one. Don't get me wrong, though: I do think it's okay to beat the shit out of your kids in a very serious situation - such as the ones that you mentioned above - but it's also okay to exert a lighter spanking if the child did something less serious and/or offensive. Nevertheless, as I stated in my first reply, I think it would be better to avoid a physical damage in all types of situation (i.e. regardless of whether the child did something really, really bad or slightly bad) in the first place which, I know that you already agree with. So, there's no disagreement between us on that issue at least. 
It was never necessary for my Dad to hit me. In my whole life he hit me... twice? He'd just tell me stories about how my grandpa used to abuse him and my uncles. My Dad said he didn't want to be like that but if he HAD to he would. I'm 17 years old and I still get scared when he yells at me.
"Truth can never be reached by just listening to the voice of an authority." -- Francis Bacon
I am thinking that we have several definitions of just what constitutes a "smack, a spanking and a beating. My father would "beat us" as such we as adults never did the same to our children.
My mother on the other hand would give us a "smack" never hurt but did get our attention. She would then (as we grew older) use reason "The Voice" and various other guilt tripping methods to keep us 4 in line. We loving call her "The Tyrant" she was the boss until we were 18 and that was it. The potato incident was only once (when I was a cocky 14 yo) and that was only because she was cooking dinner and had it in her hand...she used to play competition Tennis and had a VERY good aim. Beyond the smack for a very young one who is either getting into serious strife (life threatening) or who is deliberately damaging property there is no need to smack ...I agree. Like I said kids don't come with a "How to" manual so it is tricky to find just what works. I think I have had to smack my two only a handful of times in total. They are very good kids and fully grown now and complain that they see adults just letting "Little Johnny" run rampant with total disregard for property and others...this distresses them. I am thinking that for Beatings and other brutality inflicted on children we are agreed that this is not necessary. "The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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