(September 26, 2011 at 8:15 pm)ElDinero Wrote: Guys, take a picture. That's about as close as we'll get to SW admitting he was lying and moving the goalposts like an intellectually dishonest fuckwit.

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Statler and his three boyfriends on an average day:

Lying? I don't think that means what you think it means. Can you prove that the man you presented even believed Jesus was a myth? Everything I have found on him never says this. So it looks like it is just you who missed the goal because you didn’t take the time to research the guy you cited.

"You are moving the goalposts. We are talking about people who claim Jesus never existed at all here."

Stat, coming from a guy who reinvents the game when the rules oppress, I'll just have to see your ante and raise you.

How well-respected are the xtian scholars you are citing in the general field of history?

(September 26, 2011 at 8:49 pm)Epimethean Wrote: How well-respected are the xtian scholars you are citing in the general field of history?

I cited atheist scholars actually; one of them works at Cambridge so I imagine he is pretty well respected.

And of this group, how many not only think the jesus myth group is loony, but believe that jesus truly existed as depicted in the bible?

(September 26, 2011 at 9:07 pm)Epimethean Wrote: And of this group, how many not only think the jesus myth group is loony, but believe that jesus truly existed as depicted in the bible?

I don't know, that's not the issue we are discussing. We are talking about the "Jesus myth" crowd.

You always feel as though someone has given you the reins of any given conversation that you're in don't you?

I've always loved the historical jesus crowd. In the end, whether you decide to think of jesus as a historical person sans magic or a literary device used to promote a system of social order the practical effect would be the same wouldn't it. It's only when you introduce claims of godliness and all that go with them that problems begin to arise. As an Aesop type of character jesus absolutely works. Takes a lot less mental contortion to make amends between his moments of insight and his moments of fiery indignation and threats of torture. Thing is we don't have any actual evidence that he existed. We always hear from apologists that like to cite some common agreement about the historical accuracy of the idea of Jesus of Nazareth, but when asked upon what evidence those scholars based their conclusions (and there would be something wouldn't there, if the claim had any weight) we get the "are you doubting your own men of science" bullshit instead of what we ask for.

"No, I'm doubting that you understand how any of this actually works, specifically how to distinguish between the opinion of an educated person and the things they are prepared to demonstrate by evidence."

One of the many posters who contribute much more to this website in the way of actual content recently posted a video describing the results of human genetic sequencing and specifically the predictions that happened to pan out as a consequence of this little data mining excursion. The man was a Catholic, he believed in god. He was also an evolutionary biologist. A better example of this concept could not be asked for.

(September 26, 2011 at 10:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Thing is we don't have any actual evidence that he existed.

No one can prove to you God exists because sin seperates mankind from God, which is why there is no evidence for those who still follow their sinful nature. The only way you can know God is to turn from your sins, because God is holy, we can only know him by accepted Jesus, his son, who died on the cross, taking the penalty of our sins upon himself, and thereby, making a gateway to heaven for all those who look to him.

Sin is serious, and God will bring judgment on all those who do not trun from their sins and seek to make themselves right with God. Our sins are forgiven if we look to Jesus, but if we don't, we stand condemned. God is patient and hs patience is indeed his amazing grace, because he loves us so much, and he showed his loved for all mankind on the cross. God has given us all free will and it is our choice whom we follow, sin which is satan or Jesus whom is righteous. God gives us time to repent from our sins, I used to live in sin, but now God has shown me the light.

Everyone will have to stand before God one day, and only the ones who seek his righteousness will see heaven. No one deserves to go to heaven for all have sinned and there is no sin in heaven, but God made a way for us at the cross so that whoever believes in his son should inherit eternal life in his kindgom.

No one can get to heaven by anything they do, it is all about what Jesus did on the cross. You may say that, if there is a heaven, why doesn't everyone go there? it's very simple, if we went to heaven as we were, we would spoil it, and God can not allow anyone still living in sin to enter his glorious kingsom. but there is a way, the blood of Jesus can cleanse anyone of their sins, no matter how bad they are.

Who doesn't want peace and joy in their life? well that's what Jesus will give to anyone who turns to him!

REJECT JESUS = REJECT LIFE!

THE WORD OF GOD IS TRUE! And how can I be so sure? Because his Holy Spirit lives in me, just as it does in millions of people around the world! His spirit has changed me and is changing me each day, for it is by the Spirit of God that we are trnasformed, and are born-again, a spiritual rebirth. I used to follow my sinful nature, but now I follow Jesus. I could never understand about the Holy Spirirt before I was born-again, but now I know that God is indeed real and loves me tremendously, just as he does everyone. God does not want to have to bring judgment on anyone, but unless we turn from our sins, he will.

JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER, No one who doesn't know Jesus can possibly enter the kingdom of heaven, but all those who know the Risen Lord Jesus, will be saved!

WHY SHOULD I CARE IF YOU ARE SAVED OR NOT? It is only because of God's Spirit that dwells within me, that I do care, because his spirit is apart of me now, and God wants everyone to be saved, but it is our choice, he will not force us either way and take away our freewill.

I know you probably couldn't give a shit what i say, but i know what i am doing is right, for it is God himself who has compelled me to speak to you his word, for without the word of God, no one can be saved. Before i was born-again of the spirit of God, I couldn't care less, but God has changed me, giving my compassion, even for those who are against Jesus, whom i love dearly.

I know you will not understand what it is like to know God but I tell you the truth; their is nothing greater than coming to know your creator. There is no everlasting hope other than in the Lord Jesus Christ. There are many things of the world we can put our hope in, money, pleasures, firedns, family and much more, but when the body dies, where will those things be then? How can you be so sure you will not have to answer for you sins before God? But for the rightoues, there is a stronghold in Jesus, who has died himself but defeated it, as will all those who belive in him. We come into this world with nothing and leave with nothing. But if you know Jesus, then he will be with you in death and you will not stand condemned before him by your sins, and you will indeed see heaven, for it is guaranteed! The weight of sin will drag you lower than the grave but Jesus will lift us up if we ask him and only by his blood can we be cleansed of ours sins.

One day you will see that i am right, so choose wisely, will you follow keep following your sinful nature, or turn to YOUR GOD, and let him rescue you from condemnation and bring you into his knigdom, which, even if you do not believe, is better than anything the human mind could possibly think of.

JESUS IS THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD, THE RISEN LORD, THE MESSIAH, THE HOLY ONE OF GOD, THE ONLY WAY TO OUR SALVATION!

I'd rather have ass sex and burn in hell with the fun people. We have heard it all before and if we bought that bullshit, we'd be Christians too. Stop preaching, wacko!

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It's the same shit over and over again with these christians. I hope when they die they have to face Serapis.

Working on your Sunday sermon, Dan? This is not the place for it.

@Dan.

You are preaching. Please stop it.Preaching is against forum rules and I for one am not interested in your badly reasoned personal superstitions.

I try to avoid arguing with dogmatic apologists,it's like trying to communicate with an orangutang.

Quote:If you could reason with religious people there wouldn't be any (Greg House)