I hear theists saying that without God life has no purpose. The only part of this statement I disagree with is the without God part.
As far as I can see there is no purpose at all to our lives. I've heard atheists arguing with theists about the question of purpose saying things like "We make our own purpose" and "We don't need God for purpose".

I'm interested in what both atheists and theists think purpose is. Ultimately whatever you are doing, have done or are going to do is one big waste of time. I'm thinking about past generations in my family, I have no idea about who those people were, what they did, I know nothing.

I understand purpose as working toward something, so I could say my purpose is to go through life without hurting anyone or that my purpose is to have children and bring them up well and hopefully leave the world in better shape than I found it... But so what? Ultimately so what?

Even if by some ridiculous miracle God does exist and has a purpose in mind for us, what the hell can you possibly work toward for in eternity? Nothing, nothing at all.

I'm not depressed by the fact that I am pointless. I'm just thinking out loud.

Eternity with 72 virgins. If that doesn't count as purpose I don't know what will.

(November 5, 2018 at 5:48 am)IWNKYAAIMI Wrote: Ultimately whatever you are doing, have done or are going to do is one big waste of time.

The idea that really to matter your life has to matter in some eternal and universal way -- that it has to matter to the Great Judge of the Universe or else it doesn't really matter -- is a hold-over from religion. 

If it's not a waste of time to you and the people around you, then how can you say it's a waste of time? You are real, and the people around you are real. If something matters to you and to them, then it matters. By what other measure could it matter?

While I agree, there is a vast qualitative difference between a transcendent purpose and one that is contingent and limited. Religion does have the edge in that department.

(November 5, 2018 at 6:32 am)Belaqua Wrote: If it's not a waste of time to you and the people around you, then how can you say it's a waste of time? You are real, and the people around you are real. If something matters to you and to them, then it matters. By what other measure could it matter?

At the time you re doing whatever you are doing, of course it doesn't seem to be a waste of time, and maybe there was a purpose to it at that time... But in 300 years time who is going to care about what you did during your lifetime? I'm not saying behaving decently should be put on the backburner or anything, I'm just saying that I personally can't back the argument that any of us have a particular purpose.

I think too many people see themselves as special or important. The reality is that we are no more special or have no more purpose than a cow or a sheep.

Sort of like a dolphin.

Boru

Procreation (sex), or at least going thru the motions. 

But at my age it's keeping that little bastards OFF MY LAWN!

(November 5, 2018 at 7:17 am)wyzas Wrote: (sex)

(A close second to Sunday dinner)

I think the problem is one of language. Purpose is inherently a subjective idea. Asking for purpose without first asking for a viewpoint is, in my opinion, a contradiction in terms.

I think theists try to get around this by referring to some sort of external purpose, but this still relates to a point of view. It’s generally about scoring points for another life, or getting favour with some external being. These are still subjective, and relate to specific goals. Once you get to this other life, what is the purpose of that? To enjoy it, presumably. So it’s no different to someone deciding to enjoy this life.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with subjective purpose. We make our own, and view things around us as having purpose in a variety of ways personal to us.

Someone could argue that a particular outcome of actions is more important to consider than another, but that’s again inherently subjective. You can also have intended purpose, but that doesn’t trump any other kind unless you simply grant authority to one source or another.

Plus the argument that some theists make that there is no [ultimate] purpose without God isn't actually a logical argument against the soundness of atheism, but rather an attempt to point out some supposed "oh-so-negative" implication of atheism.