(November 12, 2018 at 2:40 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 2:33 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: We can presume that God exists. But your faith doesn't make us eternal, it's just a claim.

I'll agree with that but only because I can't prove it to you beyond any doubt.

Everena, what country are you from? Do you have a husband?

(November 12, 2018 at 2:48 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 1:59 pm)Everena Wrote: Fine, they prove nothing to someone like you. They have proven God to me and bilions and billions of others beyond any and all doubt.

Yeah and if you rewind the clock to ancient times, the generally flat appearance of the earth, "proved" earth's flatness. The fact that crops turned out poorly "proved" that they must have angered the the gods who brought the rain. They were mistaken about that. But if you took a poll in ancient times, most people would have agreed that angering the gods was the reason for bad weather. That doesn't make it true. It is bad reasoning to assume that it does. After all, there are far more plausible explanations for weather patterns, aren't there?

As far as your own mystical experiences, I'm trying to meet you halfway here. Others in the thread have argued that such experiences are reducible to brain activity, and (on this point) I agree with them. But where I disagree is that your experience ought to be dubbed meaningless on that account. For example, if I am in love with a woman, my experience can be explained by brain chemistry and neurotransmitters, sure. But that should have no bearing on my relation to the experience of love. There is an ontology there which is not reducible to chemistry. I have much the same attitude regarding mysticism. There is an ontology with mysticism that can and does supply significance to one's existence. But just because I experience love concerning a special woman does not mean I should argue that others should love her.

Why do I need to validate your God experience? Why does God need to be believed in? Love for a woman has carried me through dark times, and love for a woman has inspired me to be a better person. I'm pretty sure faith in God can supply similar provisions for your esteem. But I fail to see how imposing belief on someone who needs evidence is going to do them any good any more than my insisting that others highly regard the object of my affections. If God exists, let him convince us.

YOU SAID: if I am in love with a woman, my experience can be explained by brain chemistry and neurotransmitters, sure
My question is: brain chemistry and neurotransmitters that came to be how exactly?

(November 12, 2018 at 2:48 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: If God exists, let him convince us.

*channels the mind of a crazy theist*

He can. You just have to accept it, fool your mind into believing something that isn't real like when you're at work and smiling even though you're not happy at all.

It's all about acceptance outside of reason.

(November 12, 2018 at 2:52 pm)Everena Wrote: YOU SAID: if I am in love with a woman, my experience can be explained by brain chemistry and neurotransmitters, sure
My question is: brain chemistry and neurotransmitters that came to be how exactly?

Irrelevant!

Though I have concluded, based on evidence provided by science, that naturalistic processes produced human brains in a very long process of trial and error. But the first word of my response actually makes my point better.

(November 12, 2018 at 2:52 pm)Everena Wrote: YOU SAID: if I am in love with a woman, my experience can be explained by brain chemistry and neurotransmitters, sure
My question is: brain chemistry and neurotransmitters that came to be how exactly?

They evolved over millions of years for entirely natural causes.
Until you can prove that anything supernatural has EVER happened the natural explanation is really the only realistic one.

Its simple when you think about it with the blinkers of your prejudice.

So let me see if I get what you're saying, Everena. There is a god. A god which is just pure energy. A god that does not intervene. A god that basically set all the wheels in motion, then forgot about us? So Earth is essentially a Petri dish, and we are, more of less, Penicillin?

(November 12, 2018 at 2:52 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 2:48 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Yeah and if you rewind the clock to ancient times, the generally flat appearance of the earth, "proved" earth's flatness. The fact that crops turned out poorly "proved" that they must have angered the the gods who brought the rain. They were mistaken about that. But if you took a poll in ancient times, most people would have agreed that angering the gods was the reason for bad weather. That doesn't make it true. It is bad reasoning to assume that it does. After all, there are far more plausible explanations for weather patterns, aren't there?

As far as your own mystical experiences, I'm trying to meet you halfway here. Others in the thread have argued that such experiences are reducible to brain activity, and (on this point) I agree with them. But where I disagree is that your experience ought to be dubbed meaningless on that account. For example, if I am in love with a woman, my experience can be explained by brain chemistry and neurotransmitters, sure. But that should have no bearing on my relation to the experience of love. There is an ontology there which is not reducible to chemistry. I have much the same attitude regarding mysticism. There is an ontology with mysticism that can and does supply significance to one's existence. But just because I experience love concerning a special woman does not mean I should argue that others should love her.

Why do I need to validate your God experience? Why does God need to be believed in? Love for a woman has carried me through dark times, and love for a woman has inspired me to be a better person. I'm pretty sure faith in God can supply similar provisions for your esteem. But I fail to see how imposing belief on someone who needs evidence is going to do them any good any more than my insisting that others highly regard the object of my affections. If God exists, let him convince us.

YOU SAID: if I am in love with a woman, my experience can be explained by brain chemistry and neurotransmitters, sure
My question is: brain chemistry and neurotransmitters that came to be how exactly?

Additionally true love with your soulmate/other half is the only thing in the whole world that really matters and to me is our whole reason for being. God is not even a close second. 

In regards to my experiences, just let it go. I know what I experienced, I am a huge skeptic of everything and this went well beyond any and all doubt for me or I would not be so sure of it. I had mutual/shared experiences verified on the spot (including the making love experience) and so many other signs that I have no doubts left at all and I am 100% sure that God and eternal life are truths. I however do not expect you to take my word for it. You need to have your own experiences in order to prove it to yourself beyond any doubt. Just please do not pretend that you know anything about what someone else has experienced because you don't.

I also dont know whats more....worrying (in terms of *state of humanity*) to me: To think that this person is a troll and wasting a lot of valuable time just to disrupt a random forum (as if not almost any other activity would be more productive), which would be very, very pathetic, or the thought that Eve is *real* and indeed so competely separated from reality and has no sense left of how completely insane his/her statements and views are.

"I believe we are imomrtal, because i like to be immortal" and "i think god is some kind of energy" are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. One wouldnt even have to comment this nonsense (literally, the incoherent ramblings make-no-sense, at.all). It just stands for itself showing what it is to anyone who can read. I really cant fathom what drives a person to enter this forum and make such a complete fool out of him/herself. What on earth makes people completely lose the ability to be embarassed about themselves when writing (and thereby documenting for the world to see) such things? Hell, i am even so embarassed for Eve that its hard to only read this BS. Its almost one of those big brother shows, where people which god-only-knows-what-drives-them, do exactly what Eve is doing: Proudly parading around the mess they have allowed themselves to become, and presenting themselves to the public, a public that shakes its head and disbelief but at the same time cant turn its eyes away.


Its clearly a complete loss of self awareness, and yet i guess we havent even remotely explored the full scale of this train wreck of a threat and its infamous contributors.

(November 12, 2018 at 2:49 pm)purplepurpose Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 2:40 pm)Everena Wrote: I'll agree with that but only because I can't prove it to you beyond any doubt.

Everena, what country are you from? Do you have a husband?

United States and I prefer not to share personal information.

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(November 12, 2018 at 2:57 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 2:52 pm)Everena Wrote: YOU SAID: if I am in love with a woman, my experience can be explained by brain chemistry and neurotransmitters, sure
My question is: brain chemistry and neurotransmitters that came to be how exactly?

Irrelevant!

Though I have concluded, based on evidence provided by science, that naturalistic processes produced human brains in a very long process of trial and error. But the first word of my response actually makes my point better.

Define naturalistic in that context. What force of nature would care if we fell in love, or had a sex drive, or if our species had the will to survive at all? The force of nothing with no intelligence?

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(November 12, 2018 at 2:59 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 2:52 pm)Everena Wrote: YOU SAID: if I am in love with a woman, my experience can be explained by brain chemistry and neurotransmitters, sure
My question is: brain chemistry and neurotransmitters that came to be how exactly?

They evolved over millions of years for entirely natural causes.
Until you can prove that anything supernatural has EVER happened the natural explanation is really the only realistic one.

Its simple when you think about it with the blinkers of your prejudice.

Define natural causes in that context. Like I asked him, what force in nature would care if we evolved having a sex drive or a will to live? The force of nothing with no intelligence?

No force of nature cares if we fall in love, or have a sex drive, or if we have a will to live. What's the problem?