(November 20, 2018 at 3:28 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 3:04 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: For some definitions of universe I can accept this.  Unfortunately not for the only definition of universe which matters here.  Another 'universe' outside our light-cone is still within space-time.  Unless you are saying this other place was outside of *any* space-time, then you still have a conflict.

What point are you trying to make?

https://www.space.com/18811-multiple-uni...ories.html
From the article:
Though the concept may stretch credulity, there's good physics behind it. And there's not just one way to get to a multiverse — numerous physics theories independently point to such a conclusion. In fact, some experts think the existence of hidden universes is more likely than not.

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(November 20, 2018 at 3:04 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Everena

You just posted a video of the big bang when I asked for how god started everything.

But that was the everything starting, not the how it started.


Let me break this down,  the big bang happened.


You think god started it by...……..?


I was asking you to fill in the blanks. Science has few ideas of how it could have started by the way. Some have a certain amount of evidence, not good evidence yet but some.


What do you have?

The fact that conscious higher intelligence had to be involved or it doesn't happen. Science is only attempting to understand how God did it.

How did higher intelligence happen?

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Seriously This everena freak probably has the idea of gaining validation denied her from any reasonable people by making shit up and starting a cult of her own amongst gullible morons dumber than herself. But her assumption that there is anyone dumber than her might prove problematic.

(November 20, 2018 at 3:39 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 3:28 pm)Everena Wrote: What point are you trying to make?

https://www.space.com/18811-multiple-uni...ories.html
From the article:
Though the concept may stretch credulity, there's good physics behind it. And there's not just one way to get to a multiverse — numerous physics theories independently point to such a conclusion. In fact, some experts think the existence of hidden universes is more likely than not.

---

The fact that conscious higher intelligence had to be involved or it doesn't happen. Science is only attempting to understand how God did it.

How did higher intelligence happen?

---

Seriously This everena freak probably has the idea of gaining validation from morons by making shit up and starting a cult of her own.

No, people figure this stuff out all by themselves eventually anyway. Higher intelligence is God and our true selves. As I have said, we are what is. We are what has always been and we are what will always be.

OKay.. and I appologize for the quotes being all screwed to heck-an'-back, but walk though this with me Everena.


[quote pid='1854737' dateline='1542736004']


Uhm..... are you not understanding my posts?

How does your Overmind interact with our reality in the here and now?

Cheers?
[/quote]

I do not believe in a God that interacts with our reality, as I just said.

 So... you're position is that your Overmind is 13 odd billion years in the past/away from us. That your Overmind kicked everything off and then... it's all been on its won from then till now. Right? I'm not mixing anything up with this, am I?

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(November 20, 2018 at 2:41 pm)Everena Wrote: No, God cannot prevent our evil ways because God gave us free will to do anything we please. We can either choose to be good or choose to be evil.

Now, here's the problem. If your Overmind simply just kicked everything off 13 odd billion years ago and "I do not believe in a God that interacts with our reality," then we CAN NOT have anything resembling 'Free will' since EVRYTHING is unfloding exactly as your Overmind set into motion 13 odd billion years ago. Right?

(November 20, 2018 at 1:47 pm)Everena Wrote: God is the creator of the universe.....

So.. since you've stated that your Overmind DOES NOT interact with our reality... This is now nothing but an assertion. There's NOTHING in this reality with which your Overmind has interacted with to SHOW it's existence. Right?

(November 20, 2018 at 1:47 pm)Everena Wrote: ....  and our all-knowing guide and teacher on the other side.

 If your Overmind doesn't interact with this reality then HOW can it possibly teach/show us anything? Escpecially since it's 13 odd billions years away and in the past.

(November 20, 2018 at 1:47 pm)Everena Wrote: What good are we if we don't work to solve our own problems?

Well.... we're solving our own problems regardless of your Overmind because, by your own posting, it doesn't interact with our reality in the here and now, does it?

There's an aweful lot of 'Special pleading' and 'Bold assertions' in evidence in your posts to myself Everena. Nothing solid or concrete, as it were.

Cheers.

Not at work.

I think the wise advice to never overestimate the intelligence of American people needs a a qualification - you can always find a moron even dumber than the American people.

(November 20, 2018 at 3:34 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 3:13 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: That's nice dear. See ... you didn't answer the question sweetie ...
Paleontology REFUTES your false claim as "fact" ... we know, just like Kellyann, (you think alike)  and think you have "alternative facts" ...
but since you were unable to even address the question, we'll continue to dismiss the Woo Princess as a nut-case.
Sucks to be *that* delusional.

The study of old bones refutes nothing and it is just weird that you think it do

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You asserted that science exists not to answer the whys of existence but "attempts to understand how an already existing and operating universe works in order to improve our lives in numerous ways." 

Paleontology is a science, it is the scientific study of life that existed prior to, and sometimes including, the start of the Holocene Epoch (roughly 11,700 years before present). It includes the study of fossils to determine organisms' evolution and interactions with each other and their environments (their paleoecology).  

Your definition of science essentially implies all sciences are there to understand the workings of the Universe and improve our lives. 

So what Bucky is asking is how does paleontology improve our lives? 

Old bones can refute a lot more than you think

Everena is not here to learn or to validate her understanding of the universe. She is here to receive acclaimation of her idea of her own insight and perspicacity, and has zero interest in being told she has none.

(November 20, 2018 at 2:49 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 2:00 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: You've already stated this nonsense, and it's been debunked.
Science definitely wants to understand HOW the present state of affairs evolved from a prior state of affairs.
Science tries to understand prior conditions, that led to present conditions.
Your 'already existing' is total BS, and is blatantly obvious to anyone who has actually studied science.
Ever hear of Paleontology ? LMFAO How does Paleontology try to improve our lives, today ? Take your time.
Please stop embarrassing yourself, Woo Princess.

It's fact. Facts cannot be debunked. And everything you are stating is exactly what I said.

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I realize you are a bit "challenged", (shall we say) but you did not say AT ALL what I said.
YOU said "Science only attempts to understand how an already existing and operating universe works in order to improve our lives in numerous ways."
Paleontology does none of the things you claim science "only" does. You are debunked.
It appears, sweetie, ... your "fact" is not a fact, and once again you have demonstrated how ignorant you are.

(November 20, 2018 at 3:28 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 3:04 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: For some definitions of universe I can accept this.  Unfortunately not for the only definition of universe which matters here.  Another 'universe' outside our light-cone is still within space-time.  Unless you are saying this other place was outside of *any* space-time, then you still have a conflict.

What point are you trying to make?

https://www.space.com/18811-multiple-uni...ories.html
From the article:
Though the concept may stretch credulity, there's good physics behind it. And there's not just one way to get to a multiverse — numerous physics theories independently point to such a conclusion. In fact, some experts think the existence of hidden universes is more likely than not.

---

(November 20, 2018 at 3:04 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Everena

You just posted a video of the big bang when I asked for how god started everything.

But that was the everything starting, not the how it started.


Let me break this down,  the big bang happened.


You think god started it by...……..?


I was asking you to fill in the blanks. Science has few ideas of how it could have started by the way. Some have a certain amount of evidence, not good evidence yet but some.


What do you have?

The fact that conscious higher intelligence had to be involved or it doesn't happen. Science is only attempting to understand how God did it.

You are just asserting that intelligence is required for it to happen, you have not provided any evidence to support that view.

There are quite a few ideas of how the big bang could have started that do not require an intelligent agency.

Look it up.

There aren't any ideas about how it happened that -do- require an intelligent agency, lol.

(November 20, 2018 at 3:34 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 3:33 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: That the existence of our universe does not need magic to explain it in the absence of God, just the ordinary laws of physics.

Yes it does if you're an atheist. Inanimate objects cannot and did not create a planet teaming with conscious life. There has to be an intelligent and conscious force behind it and absolutely nothing else makes logical sense.

So you're denying hypotheses such as that of Krauss or the hawking-Hartle No-boundary Proposal? On what basis? Let's leave abiogenesis and evolution out of it for the moment. No sense juggling more plates than necessary.