(November 20, 2018 at 10:26 pm)Everena Wrote: [quote pid='1855191' dateline='1542765751']
That's right, you can't prove it, so your claims are bogus. You're also arguing from assertion, which is a logical fallacy.

And you claiming that my claims are bogus just because I can't prove them to you is a logical fallacy.

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[/quote]
Nope! You are making outrageous assertions with no evidence to back them up. That makes them bogus. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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(November 21, 2018 at 4:40 am)Everena Wrote:

(November 21, 2018 at 4:29 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: It clearly states in the Bible that we must not suffer witches to live. It also states that you can beat your slaves to death as long as they don't die within one day. And if your kids are disobedient, you can have them stoned to death. There are a few more instances in which the Bible justifies killing: Death for homosexuals and lesbians, death for cursing your parents, death for women who have premarital sex, death for publicly blaspheming God, death for unbelievers, etc.

The Bible is an historical account of what people were doing at that time. If they were doing the right things, they would not have needed the 10 Commandments or for Jesus to come.

And if you had bothered to follow my discussion with CD, you would have realized that I was referring to what people were doing at that time.

(November 21, 2018 at 4:43 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: [quote pid='1855191' dateline='1542765751']
That's right, you can't prove it, so your claims are bogus. You're also arguing from assertion, which is a logical fallacy.

And you claiming that my claims are bogus just because I can't prove them to you is a logical fallacy.

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[/quote]
Nope! You are making outrageous assertions with no evidence to back them up. That makes them bogus. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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(November 21, 2018 at 4:40 am)Everena Wrote: The Bible is an historical account of what people were doing at that time. If they were doing the right things, they would not have needed the 10 Commandments or for Jesus to come.

And if you had bothered to follow my discussion with CD, you would have realized that I was referring to what people were doing at that time.
[/quote]

Ok, well I was quoted in this and I did not say what it said I said, so I removed my name from it. I said the bible is an historica account quote, but that was it in this post.

Quote:The Bible is an historical account 

(November 21, 2018 at 4:40 am)Everena Wrote: The Bible is an historical account of what people were doing at that time. If they were doing the right things, they would not have needed the 10 Commandments or for Jesus to come.

Some parts are historical accounts, yes.
Some parts are regulating people's behaviour, like laws.
Some parts are fable.
Some parts are fairy tale.

Discerning these parts is an art form that believers seldom possess.

Both the 10 commandments and Jesus came too late in the story for it to be reasonable that an all knowing blob of energy is behind them.
They appear as knee jerk reactions long after the custom of the land has been established, when such a god as the one you advocate should have foreseen things and acted preemptively. This alone informs me that those two acts are fully man made. Either the stories themselves are man made, or the commandments are man made and Jesus was nothing but a man.

(November 20, 2018 at 11:30 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

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(November 20, 2018 at 10:02 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: What historical evidence do you have to support the allegation that Jesus was crucified rose from the dead?

Why do you believe the earth is round when the Bible clearly indicates that the earth is flat?

By what mechanism did Jesus raise anyone from the dead?

I didn't ask what the ritual genital mutilation was for, I asked if you think it was a moral or immoral practice.

Do you believe that slavery is a noble enterprise?

I have news for you. Witches and non-believers are being stoned to death  and murdered based upon Biblical principles in Africa even now; i.e., https://www.africanexponent.com/post/is-...-real-3155

How you feel about the laws in the US is irrelevant. I asked you whether or not certain Biblical laws/practices are moral or immoral.

The Bible and from historians.

The Bible doesn't teach the world is flat.

It was the practice God directed so moral.


No, I don't think slavery is a noble practice, come on.

The Bible and from historians.
The Bible is a book of CLAIMS, not history. Stories about miracles must be regarded as myths until you prove that such events are even possible. Cite a historian who was a contemporary of Jesus who can attest that Bible Jesus even existed.

The Bible doesn't teach the world is flat.
Wrong! To wit:

"Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth… reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds.” Only with a flat Earth could a tall tree be visible from "the earth's farthest bounds" — this is impossible on a spherical Earth.

[*]Matthew 4:8: "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world..." Impossible on a spherical earth.

[*]Luke 4:5: "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time." Again, this would be impossible on a spherical earth.

[Genital mutilation] was the practice God directed, so moral.
So, if God sanctions the gratuitous killing of human beings (Book of Job), that must be moral too?

No, I don't think slavery is a noble practice, come on.
You've just stated that what God directed is moral. Bible God sanctioned slavery, so according to your reasoning, owning slaves is moral.

Quote:The Bible and from historians.

Nope

Quote:The Bible doesn't teach the world is flat.

Yes it does

Quote:It was the practice God directed so moral.

Circular

Quote:No, I don't think slavery is a noble practice, come on.

Then your a bad Christian

Quote:The Bible is an historical account of what people were doing at that time. If they were doing the right things, they would not have needed the 10 Commandments or for Jesus to come.

Actually pretty much the entire OT has been debunked, in terms of historical accuracy. 
You really are dumber than dogshit.

Quote:I just did. You should really learn to read one of these days!

Actually you didn't, and everyone here can see that you're nothing but an evil bitch-liar.
You really are just a poe troll I think.
No one can be as nuts and stupid as you portray yourself.

(November 20, 2018 at 12:40 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: And so by default you are claiming this enitre universe and all consciousj life just  magically appeared without the use of any intelligence. Live with it. Own it. Stop trying to slink away from it.

And define natural in that context if that is what you truly believe so much.

(November 20, 2018 at 10:03 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: I think the default is that the universe arose from natural causes like everything else,
no magic necessary. What was the process by which you think that intelligence you're convinced of came to be?
Natural: Existing or caused by nature; not artificial (existing or caused by design).

Everena: You did not adequately define natural. You're saying your cause for absolutely everything was caused by something that did not even exist yet? The term is vague and means nothing.

You understand that what you are saying is equivalent to you claiming that a large rock in your front yard turned itself into an entire universe with planets and conscious life for no apparent reason. That would require magic, because it would be literally impossible.

What is it you think didn't exist yet? The universe? There's no scientific cosmological hypothesis for the origin of the universe that has it coming from absolute nothingness, that I'm aware of.

No apparent reason means that the reason is not apparent, not that there isn't one. There are multiple scientific hypotheses for the origin of the initial expansion. None of them involve magic. 'Magic' seems to just be a word you like to use to ridicule the positions of people you disagree with on this matter instead of engaging in substantive dialogue. There's no reason to think the reason for the initiation of our cosmos would be readily apparent. That we are in a position to have any idea of what was going on over 14 billion years ago is amazing when you think about it.

And if there was an actual singularity, which is in question, it contained all the matter and energy of the universe in which we exist now. Not like a large rock becoming the universe at all. More like an extremely dense and compact universe changing state into an ever-expanding and thinning one, like an ice cube becoming water vapor.

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(November 20, 2018 at 12:44 pm)CDF47 Wrote: Absolutely it is the same thing as looking at that rock waiting for a universe to appear or a human to grow out of it.

There are wonderful books on these subjects. You don't have to go through life thinking scientists believe that whatever preceded the initial expansion was analogous to a large rock; or that 14 billion years is way too short a time for something like a human to arise by natural causes somewhere in the universe.

(November 21, 2018 at 2:00 am)Everena Wrote:

(November 21, 2018 at 1:52 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Cool story, but...how many times are you going to avoid answering the simplest question about the meat fairy?  You've just indicated that you think meat fairy is the first cause, it ought to be easy to answer this question.  

It's the same question, lol....

What are you asking me exactly Gae? I do not understand what the specific question is. Yes, God created the universe, including the earth and our flesh. Our souls have always existed with God in another universe. My theory is that our souls are here and there in superposition, and when we die here, we wake up there as our true selves.

Then meat fairy is not the first cause.  Whatever created it and our souls and that "other universe"..would be. Your god is no less an incidental than I am. If that's a problem for me and food, or evolutionary biology and life, it's a problem for meat fairy too.

(November 20, 2018 at 12:45 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 19, 2018 at 1:36 pm)Everena Wrote: The question is why is there food on this planet for the 7.8 million different species of conscious life? I understand that it is needed to sustain life. I am asking why it exists on our planet at all? Are you claiming food and herbs used as medicine and what we derive our medicines from are just here because we are lucky?

(November 20, 2018 at 10:03 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: There are compounds that could be used as food by earthly life on planets all over the galaxy as far as we can see. Organic molecules that could be converted by bacteria are not in short supply. There's plenty more just in this solar system. If the planet were otherwise habitable, you could introduce bacteria, and they would have plenty to eat. And then other organisms could eat the bacteria, and so on. Earth is unique in our solar system for bearing life (unless Mars or Europa turn out to surprise us); but there are billions of billions of planets in the galaxy, and earth is far from the only terrestrial planet the right size in the 'goldilocks zone' of a star system. It's possible we're unique in our galaxy in having a technology-using civilization, but it's far less likely that earth is unique in having any life at all.

We have medicinal plants for the same reason we have poisonous plants. They evolved to survive, and we are smart enough to use the variations that have adaptations we can put to our use and avoid the variations that harm us. We've spent millennia finding out what plants help us and what plants hurt us, too bad there was no intelligence to protect us from being poisoned.

Logical fallacy. Strawman argument. The question is not how but why. The options are that either you think we just got lucky to have a planet full of delicious, nutritious, energy providing food for 8.7 million different species of life as well as being lucky by having healing herbs and plants to derive medicines from OR you think it's clear that higher intelligence was involved. There are no other options.

A strawman argument is one in which your argument is misrepresented in order to make it easier to defeat. I was responding to your question, not an argument. The strawman fallacy does not apply. The 'how' is the 'why'. Life will explore every available niche that it is able to because that is the nature of the evolutionary process. We evolved to be able to eat the food that is available because we would have gone extinct if we hadn't. It would be bizarre if out of all the plants in the world, none of them had medicinal properties. If there were only medicinal non-food plants or only poisonous non-food plants, that might be an indication of a designer. A mix is what would be expected if there is no one directing the evolutionary process, that it wasn't all designed for our betterment or detriment.

(November 20, 2018 at 12:45 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 10:03 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: What was the process by which you think that intelligence you're convinced of came to be?

Higher Intelligence/God always has been and always will be just like our true selves/souls.

What is the reason the intelligence you're talking about exists? It's a 'why' question, you like those, right?