(June 26, 2018 at 8:34 pm)CDF47 Wrote: This was a scientific thread with religious implications.  Then I was asked religious questions which is understandable.

(November 23, 2018 at 12:15 am)Everena Wrote:

(November 22, 2018 at 11:41 pm)Amarok Wrote: He can perfectly handle reading beliefs that's quite different to the arrogant delusional blather that perpetually flows from this apologist fools mouth . That's not just stating a belief that pushing bullshit then whining when called out .

Neither one of us has pushed anything on anyone. I answered people's questions and debated the topics presented. You just like to twist anything you possibly can, and insult people as much as you can, because you have no valid argument and nothing intelligent to say.

---

(November 22, 2018 at 11:56 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Look everdumb is a lost lamb, but I know through vigorous prayer, meditation, and jazzercising I can save her. 

Worst case scenario I get in shape with some funky music.

You know nothing. And I am sure that I am far more intelligent and well educated than you are.

Demonstrably false.

(November 24, 2018 at 10:36 pm)Everena Wrote: I already proved this to you. Yes neuroscience sure did ignore consciousness for decades. No one in science was studying it until like 25 years ago. Stop blathering ignorant crap. Nothing you say is ever even remotely factual or accurate. Try researching.

Nope, you really don't get irony.

(June 26, 2018 at 8:34 pm)CDF47 Wrote: This was a scientific thread with religious implications.  Then I was asked religious questions which is understandable.

(November 23, 2018 at 12:10 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(November 22, 2018 at 11:56 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Look everdumb is a lost lamb, but I know through vigorous prayer, meditation, and jazzercising I can save her. 

Worst case scenario I get in shape with some funky music.

If she truly believes in Jesus, she will be saved, her and her household.

That's not real cool calling her names.  She seems like a nice person.  I don't understand that about this site, is the name calling.  It makes your position look weak.  I enjoy the little banter here and there and expect it on an atheist forum, it is just the personal attacks and name calling which I don't understand.

Sadly she'll burn. jesus is a false prophet and my goal as it has always been is to prevent undo suffering because of false idols.
RAmen

(November 24, 2018 at 10:40 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(November 24, 2018 at 10:32 pm)Everena Wrote: What you are talking about is not information and you know it.

What I'm talking about is information by the definition that you very kindly provided. Information requires no consciousness. If you have two rocks then you have a distance between those two rocks. That's information.

Quote:And actually many scientists claimed the brain was too warm, wet and noisy for quantum processes

Too wet, warm and messy for coherence. Which it is. Please try and learn what you're babbling about.

Everena: No, exactly what I said is correct and you are wrong. You try to learn what you are blathering about. 

Orch OR was harshly criticized from its inception, as the brain was considered too "warm, wet, and noisy" for seemingly delicate quantum processes.. However, evidence has now shown warm quantum coherence in plant photosynthesis, bird brain navigation, our sense of smell, and brain microtubules. The recent discovery of warm temperature quantum vibrations in microtubules inside brain neurons by the research group led by Anirban Bandyopadhyay, PhD, at the National Institute of Material Sciences in Tsukuba, Japan (and now at MIT), corroborates the pair's theory and suggests that EEG rhythms also derive from deeper level microtubule vibrations. In addition, work from the laboratory of Roderick G. Eckenhoff, MD, at the University of Pennsylvania, suggests that anesthesia, which selectively erases consciousness while sparing non-conscious brain activities, acts via microtubules in brain neurons.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...085105.htm

Quote:and Penrose and Hameroff proved them all wrong. And no one knew there were quantum vibrations in our brain until 2014

Quantum vibrations are in everything, up to and including a theoretical perfect vacuum. That is literally the definition of zero point energy. If this were any less newsworthy it would have come out of the southern end of a north-bound bull.

Everena: False. No one knew quantum vibrations were occuring in the brain until late 2013/early 2014.

(November 24, 2018 at 10:45 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: False. No one knew quantum vibrations were occuring in the brain until late 2013/early 2014.

Prove it.

(November 24, 2018 at 10:23 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Besides the sequences and order that we know arise in Chaos Theory, with no intelligence needed,
there are countless examples in nature of the Fibonacci sequence.

" Seed heads, pinecones, fruits and vegetables: Look at the array of seeds in the center of a sunflower and you'll notice what looks like spiral patterns curving left and right. Amazingly, if you count these spirals, your total will be a Fibonacci number. Divide the spirals into those pointed left and right and you'll get two consecutive Fibonacci numbers. You can decipher spiral patterns in pinecones, pineapples and cauliflower that also reflect the Fibonacci sequence in this manner. ­

Flowers and branches: Some plants express the Fibonacci sequence in their growth points, the places where tree branches form or split. One trunk grows until it produces a branch, resulting in two growth points. The main trunk then produces another branch, resulting in three growth points. Then the trunk and the first branch produce two more growth points, bringing the total to five. This pattern continues, following the Fibonacci numbers. Additionally, if you count the number of petals on a flower, you'll often find the total to be one of the numbers in the Fibonacci sequence. For example, lilies and irises have three petals, buttercups and wild roses have five, delphiniums have eight petals and so on.

Take a good look at the Romanesco cauliflower -- its spiral follows the Fibonacci sequence.
Honeybees: A honeybee colony consists of a queen, a few drones and lots of workers. The female bees (queens and workers) all have two parents, a drone and a queen. Drones, on the other hand, hatch from unfertilized eggs. This means they have only one parent. Therefore, Fibonacci numbers express a drone's family tree in that he has one parent, two grandparents, three great-grandparents and so forth.

The human body: Take a good look at yourself in the mirror. You'll notice that most of your body parts follow the numbers one, two, three and five. You have one nose, two eyes, three segments to each limb and five fingers on each hand. The proportions and measurements of the human body can also be divided up in terms of the golden ratio. DNA molecules follow this sequence, measuring 34 angstroms long and 21 angstroms wide for each full cycle of the double helix [source: Jovonovic].

Why do so many natural patterns reflect the Fibonacci sequence? Scientists have pondered the question for centuries. In some cases, the correlation may just be coincidence. In other situations, the ratio exists because that particular growth pattern evolved as the most effective. In plants, this may mean maximum exposure for light-hungry leaves or maximum seed arrangement."

The Mandelbrot set is another example of a complex set, no intelligence needed. It just occurs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set

Intelligence would of course be required for there to be similar patterns everywhere and the Fibronacci Sequence is one of the main arguments used by the Intelligent Design camp genius. WOW

(November 24, 2018 at 7:31 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 24, 2018 at 7:19 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: Nope! To wit:

Hameroff speculated that visual photons in the retina are detected directly by the cones and rods instead of decohering and subsequently connect with the retinal glia cells via gap junctions,[41] but this too was falsified.[72]

Everena: Who cares? That has not one thing to do with what we are discussing and what are you claiming the too for? Sorry, ignorant one but they proved what they set out to prove whether you like it or not.


Other biology-based criticisms have been offered.[73] Papers by Georgiev[20][63] point to problems with Hameroff's proposals, including a lack of explanation for the probabilistic release of neurotransmitter from presynaptic axon terminals[74][75][76] and an error in the calculated number of the tubulin dimers per cortical neuron.[64] Hameroff insisted in a 2013 interview that those falsifications were invalid, but did not provide any explanation where the falsifications fail.[77]

You're still grasping at straws.

Everena: No, you are and just so you know 2013 is before their theory was proven in 2014. 20 testable predictions of Orch Or and 6 have been proven and corroborated and NONE of their remaining hypotheses are refuted. They listened to all constructive criticism along the way and made adjustments when necessary because that is how science works genius.

Citations needed.

(November 24, 2018 at 10:48 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(November 24, 2018 at 10:45 pm)Everena Wrote: Everena: False. No one knew quantum vibrations were occuring in the brain until late 2013/early 2014.

Prove it.

It is in the article I just responded with on the page I responded on. It is proven. Here it is again lazy

Orch OR was harshly criticized from its inception, as the brain was considered too "warm, wet, and noisy" for seemingly delicate quantum processes.. However, evidence has now shown warm quantum coherence in plant photosynthesis, bird brain navigation, our sense of smell, and brain microtubules. The recent discovery of warm temperature quantum vibrations in microtubules inside brain neurons by the research group led by Anirban Bandyopadhyay, PhD, at the National Institute of Material Sciences in Tsukuba, Japan (and now at MIT), corroborates the pair's theory and suggests that EEG rhythms also derive from deeper level microtubule vibrations. In addition, work from the laboratory of Roderick G. Eckenhoff, MD, at the University of Pennsylvania, suggests that anesthesia, which selectively erases consciousness while sparing non-conscious brain activities, acts via microtubules in brain neurons. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...085105.htm

(November 24, 2018 at 10:45 pm)Everena Wrote: [quote pid='1857819' dateline='1543113623']
No, exactly what I said is correct and you are wrong. You try to learn what you are blathering about. 

[/quote]

OK, explain this: Quantum Gravity

(November 24, 2018 at 10:54 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 24, 2018 at 10:23 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Besides the sequences and order that we know arise in Chaos Theory, with no intelligence needed,
there are countless examples in nature of the Fibonacci sequence.

" Seed heads, pinecones, fruits and vegetables: Look at the array of seeds in the center of a sunflower and you'll notice what looks like spiral patterns curving left and right. Amazingly, if you count these spirals, your total will be a Fibonacci number. Divide the spirals into those pointed left and right and you'll get two consecutive Fibonacci numbers. You can decipher spiral patterns in pinecones, pineapples and cauliflower that also reflect the Fibonacci sequence in this manner. ­

Flowers and branches: Some plants express the Fibonacci sequence in their growth points, the places where tree branches form or split. One trunk grows until it produces a branch, resulting in two growth points. The main trunk then produces another branch, resulting in three growth points. Then the trunk and the first branch produce two more growth points, bringing the total to five. This pattern continues, following the Fibonacci numbers. Additionally, if you count the number of petals on a flower, you'll often find the total to be one of the numbers in the Fibonacci sequence. For example, lilies and irises have three petals, buttercups and wild roses have five, delphiniums have eight petals and so on.

Take a good look at the Romanesco cauliflower -- its spiral follows the Fibonacci sequence.
Honeybees: A honeybee colony consists of a queen, a few drones and lots of workers. The female bees (queens and workers) all have two parents, a drone and a queen. Drones, on the other hand, hatch from unfertilized eggs. This means they have only one parent. Therefore, Fibonacci numbers express a drone's family tree in that he has one parent, two grandparents, three great-grandparents and so forth.

The human body: Take a good look at yourself in the mirror. You'll notice that most of your body parts follow the numbers one, two, three and five. You have one nose, two eyes, three segments to each limb and five fingers on each hand. The proportions and measurements of the human body can also be divided up in terms of the golden ratio. DNA molecules follow this sequence, measuring 34 angstroms long and 21 angstroms wide for each full cycle of the double helix [source: Jovonovic].

Why do so many natural patterns reflect the Fibonacci sequence? Scientists have pondered the question for centuries. In some cases, the correlation may just be coincidence. In other situations, the ratio exists because that particular growth pattern evolved as the most effective. In plants, this may mean maximum exposure for light-hungry leaves or maximum seed arrangement."

The Mandelbrot set is another example of a complex set, no intelligence needed. It just occurs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set

Intelligence would of course be required for there to be similar patterns everywhere and the Fibronacci Sequence is one of the main arguments used by the Intelligent Design camp genius. WOW

Prove it!