(June 26, 2018 at 8:34 pm)CDF47 Wrote: This was a scientific thread with religious implications.  Then I was asked religious questions which is understandable.

(November 25, 2018 at 11:20 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 25, 2018 at 10:58 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Great, explain this then.

Explain what? Some study on twins from microbiology? What do you think it proves exactly?

---

(November 25, 2018 at 11:13 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: For those curious about the real universal origins, I have broken down into this easy to digest and irrefutable form:

1. FSM is eternal and exists beyond time and space

2. Everything (else) has a cause.

3. Nothing can cause itself.

4. Everything is caused by another thing.

5. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length.

6. There must be a first cause.

7. The first cause had no cause.

8. FSM is the only thing that can have no cause, thus he must be the first cause.

So FSM is God? Is that your point with this?

Correct CD, erm everdumb.  Gold star sticker for you.  

I earnestly hope his noodles touch you and unharden your heart.
RAmen

(November 25, 2018 at 11:20 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 25, 2018 at 10:58 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Great, explain this then.

Explain what? Some study on twins from microbiology? What do you think it proves exactly?

Twins?!? That study is on the bacteria Bacillus subtilis. Did you not read anything beyond the first word in the title?

(June 26, 2018 at 8:34 pm)CDF47 Wrote: This was a scientific thread with religious implications.  Then I was asked religious questions which is understandable.

(November 25, 2018 at 11:32 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(November 25, 2018 at 11:20 pm)Everena Wrote: Explain what? Some study on twins from microbiology? What do you think it proves exactly?

Twins?!? That study is on the bacteria Bacillus subtilis. Did you not read anything beyond the first word in the title?

You really assumed a lot for her. I'd suggest starting with something akin to Dr.Seuss and working up.

(November 25, 2018 at 10:56 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(June 26, 2018 at 8:34 pm)CDF47 Wrote: This was a scientific thread with religious implications.  Then I was asked religious questions which is understandable.

(November 25, 2018 at 10:51 pm)Everena Wrote: Pastfarian are atheists and I am not the least bit dumb. I am sure than I far more intelligent and well educated than you are.

One; BZZZZ Wrong, However, I am not surprised a simpleton like yourself/CD cannot grasp the light, love and ultimate truth FSM brings.

Two; Getting 4 words spelled right on your Speak & Spell is hardly an education, I digress.

Three; Since we can make baseless broad assessments of faith, All jesus followers steal from charity jars and set forest fires.

RAmen.

I am not a simpleton. I spent my youth in a gifted program for those with high intelligence, and I am college educated. And again you may think insulting people that you have never met and know nothing about makes you look smart, but it doesn't.

(November 25, 2018 at 11:39 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 25, 2018 at 10:56 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: One; BZZZZ Wrong, However, I am not surprised a simpleton like yourself/CD cannot grasp the light, love and ultimate truth FSM brings.

Two; Getting 4 words spelled right on your Speak & Spell is hardly an education, I digress.

Three; Since we can make baseless broad assessments of faith, All jesus followers steal from charity jars and set forest fires.

RAmen.

I am not a simpleton. I spent my youth in a gifted program for those with high intelligence, and I am college educated. And again you may think insulting people that you have never met and know nothing about makes you look smart, but it doesn't.

I Mississippi or Alabama?

(June 26, 2018 at 8:34 pm)CDF47 Wrote: This was a scientific thread with religious implications.  Then I was asked religious questions which is understandable.

(November 25, 2018 at 11:39 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 25, 2018 at 10:56 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: One; BZZZZ Wrong, However, I am not surprised a simpleton like yourself/CD cannot grasp the light, love and ultimate truth FSM brings.

Two; Getting 4 words spelled right on your Speak & Spell is hardly an education, I digress.

Three; Since we can make baseless broad assessments of faith, All jesus followers steal from charity jars and set forest fires.

RAmen.

I am not a simpleton. I spent my youth in a gifted program for those with high intelligence, and I am college educated. And again you may think insulting people that you have never met and know nothing about makes you look smart, but it doesn't.

"When I was young, I spent several years at a private school where I was told I'd be taught to harness my mutant abilities, Turned out, it was a con man copying Charles Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters from the X-Men comic books. Took me years to figure out it was a con. Some people never figured it out."  -Dwight Schrute-

(November 25, 2018 at 11:32 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(November 25, 2018 at 11:20 pm)Everena Wrote: Explain what? Some study on twins from microbiology? What do you think it proves exactly?

Twins?!? That study is on the bacteria Bacillus subtilis. Did you not read anything beyond the first word in the title?

Bacteria that are twins. And?

(November 25, 2018 at 1:10 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 25, 2018 at 11:06 am)Everena Wrote: Not what he said. Re-read the post. He was wrong (about every single thing)

(November 25, 2018 at 11:12 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: I did read what he and you said, quoted below, and everything is as I have claimed.

Wrong, no.

(November 24, 2018 at 10:40 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Quantum vibrations are in everything, up to and including a theoretical perfect vacuum. That is literally the definition of zero point energy. If this were any less newsworthy it would have come out of the southern end of a north-bound bull.

(November 25, 2018 at 11:06 am)Everena Wrote: Noone knew quantum vibrations were occuring in microtubules in the brain until late 2013/early 2014

(November 24, 2018 at 10:40 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Prove it.

A review and update of a controversial 20-year-old theory of consciousness claims that consciousness derives from deeper level, finer scale activities inside brain neurons. The recent discovery of quantum vibrations in "microtubules" inside brain neurons corroborates this theory, according to review authors. They suggest that EEG rhythms (brain waves) also derive from deeper level microtubule vibrations, and that from a practical standpoint, treating brain microtubule vibrations could benefit a host of mental, neurological, and cognitive conditions.

Orch OR was harshly criticized from its inception, as the brain was considered too "warm, wet, and noisy" for seemingly delicate quantum processes.. However, evidence has now shown warm quantum coherence in plant photosynthesis, bird brain navigation, our sense of smell, and brain microtubules. The recent discovery of warm temperature quantum vibrations in microtubules inside brain neurons by the research group led by Anirban Bandyopadhyay, PhD, at the National Institute of Material Sciences in Tsukuba, Japan (and now at MIT), corroborates the pair's theory and suggests that EEG rhythms also derive from deeper level microtubule vibrations. In addition, work from the laboratory of Roderick G. Eckenhoff, MD, at the University of Pennsylvania, suggests that anesthesia, which selectively erases consciousness while sparing non-conscious brain activities, acts via microtubules in brain neurons.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...085105.htm

Proven!

That quantum vibrations were recently discovered does not at all show that scientists doubted that quantum vibrations were a part of microtubules prior to that or that critics doubted that such was the case. That's simply more bad logic on your part. From reading your quote it sounds like there was some difficulty finding them due to decoherence in that environment, not that anybody doubted they might be there. Your own quote makes that very point. As the Wikipedia article on Orch OR notes, the criticism was concerning decoherence in such an environment. To wit:

Quote:Decoherence in living organisms

In 2000 Tegmark claimed that any quantum coherent system in the brain would undergo effective wave function collapse due to environmental interaction long before it could influence neural processes (the "warm, wet and noisy" argument, as it was later came to be known).[18] He determined the decoherence timescale of microtubule entanglement at brain temperatures to be on the order of femtoseconds, far too brief for neural processing. Christof Koch and Klaus Hepp also agreed that quantum coherence does not play, or does not need to play any major role in neurophysiology.[21][22] Koch and Hepp concluded that ``The empirical demonstration of slowly decoherent and controllable quantum bits in neurons connected by electrical or chemical synapses, or the discovery of an efficient quantum algorithm for computations performed by the brain, would do much to bring these speculations from the ‘far-out’ to the mere ‘very unlikely’.''[21]

In response to Tegmark's claims, Hagan, Tuszynski and Hameroff[56][57] claimed that Tegmark did not address the Orch-OR model, but instead a model of his own construction. This involved superpositions of quanta separated by 24 nm rather than the much smaller separations stipulated for Orch-OR. As a result, Hameroff's group claimed a decoherence time seven orders of magnitude greater than Tegmark's, although still far below 25 ms. Hameroff's group also suggested that the Debye layer of counterions could screen thermal fluctuations, and that the surrounding actin gel might enhance the ordering of water, further screening noise. They also suggested that incoherent metabolic energy could further order water, and finally that the configuration of the microtubule lattice might be suitable for quantum error correction, a means of resisting quantum decoherence.

Since the 1990s numerous counter-observations to the "warm, wet and noisy" argument existed at ambient temperatures, in vitro[23][42] and in vivo (i.e. photosynthesis, bird navigation). For example, Harvard researchers achieved quantum states lasting for 2 sec at room temperatures using diamonds.[58][59] Plants routinely use quantum-coherent electron transport at ambient temperatures in photosynthesis.[60] In 2014, researchers used theoretical quantum biophysics and computer simulations to analyze quantum coherence among tryptophan π resonance rings in tubulin. They claimed that quantum dipole coupling among tryptophan π resonance clouds, mediated by exciton hopping or Forster resonance energy transfer (FRET) across the tubulin protein are plausible.[61]

In 2007, Gregory S. Engel, Professor in Chemistry at The University of Chicago, claimed that all arguments concerning the brain being "too warm and wet" have been dispelled, as multiple "warm and wet" quantum processes have been discovered.[60][62]

In 2009, Reimers et al. and McKemmish et al., published critical assessments.[19][37][45] Earlier versions of the theory had required tubulin-electrons to form either Bose–Einsteins or Frohlich condensates, and the Reimers group claimed that these were experimentally unfounded. Additionally they claimed that microtubules could only support 'weak' 8 MHz coherence. The first argument was voided by revisions of the theory that described dipole oscillations due to London forces and possibly due to magnetic and/or nuclear spin cloud formations.[6] On the second issue the theory was retrofitted so that 8 MHz coherence is sufficient to support the whole Orch-OR hypothesis.

McKemmish et al. made two claims: that aromatic molecules cannot switch states because they are delocalised; and that changes in tubulin protein-conformation driven by GTP conversion would result in a prohibitive energy requirement. Hameroff and Penrose responded to the first claim by stating that they were referring to the behaviour of two or more electron clouds, inherently non-localised. For the second claim they stated that no GTP conversion is needed since (in that version of the theory) the conformation-switching is not necessary, replaced by oscillation due to the London forces produced by the electron cloud dipole states.

Wikipedia || Orchestrated objective reduction, criticisms, decoherence in living organisms

I think if anybody or lots of somebodies were claiming there were no quantum vibrations in microtubules, they would have noted it. But feel free to quote someone claiming that quantum vibrations do not occur in microtubules, because the above that you quoted isn't it. Do that, and I'll concede the point.

(November 25, 2018 at 11:40 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(November 25, 2018 at 11:39 pm)Everena Wrote: I am not a simpleton. I spent my youth in a gifted program for those with high intelligence, and I am college educated. And again you may think insulting people that you have never met and know nothing about makes you look smart, but it doesn't.

I Mississippi or Alabama?

In California.

1: God Exists.

2: God is All-Powerful, by definition. A limited "deity" is a logical contradiction.

3: God created everything.

4: Suffering exists. e.g.: Infant death, floods, volcanoes, Everena's posts...

5: From 3 and 4, God created suffering.

6: All-powerful beings can always take another option. They do not have to settle for second best or accept necessary evil. They can always create a better option.

7: God did not take a better option than creating suffering.

8: From 6 and 7, God needlessly created suffering.

Conclusion: God is Malevolent.

An all-loving, merciful, just Creator is incompatible with the evidence of our reality.

At least from the perspective of a human. Maybe this is nematode heaven.