Bush Sr.'s critical blunder was in not finishing the job of the First Gulf War and taking out Saddam. The Americans encouraged the Iraqi people to launch an uprising against Saddam, which they did in 1991, but they sat back and watched as Saddam exterminated them. Bush Jr. didn't shy away from finishing what his dad started and that's why I respect him more than his dad.

Now I can understand why American people oppose the war. They didn't feel it was necessary to sacrifice the lives of thousands of their own troops to liberate a foreign country half way across the world. But from my perspective, the fall of Saddam was a great thing and all credit goes to Bush.

Similarly, I appreciate whoever's decision it was and whoever really pushed for the campaign to bomb Gaddafi and help the rebels capture him. Apparently this was the work of Hillary and though Obama was president, he was weak in foreign policy and it was Hillary who pushed him for it (correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm quite sure that if Hillary was president she would have likewise gotten rid of Assad.

The fall of these 2 fascist dictators (Saddam and Gaddafi) had greatly alarmed the Middle East autocrats.

(December 2, 2018 at 6:46 am)Cherub786 Wrote: Bush Sr.'s critical blunder was in not finishing the job of the First Gulf War and taking out Saddam. The Americans encouraged the Iraqi people to launch an uprising against Saddam, which they did in 1991, but they sat back and watched as Saddam exterminated them. Bush Jr. didn't shy away from finishing what his dad started and that's why I respect him more than his dad.

Now I can understand why American people oppose the war. They didn't feel it was necessary to sacrifice the lives of thousands of their own troops to liberate a foreign country half way across the world. But from my perspective, the fall of Saddam was a great thing and all credit goes to Bush.

Similarly, I appreciate whoever's decision it was and whoever really pushed for the campaign to bomb Gaddafi and help the rebels capture him. Apparently this was the work of Hillary and though Obama was president, he was weak in foreign policy and it was Hillary who pushed him for it (correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm quite sure that if Hillary was president she would have likewise gotten rid of Assad.

The fall of these 2 fascist dictators (Saddam and Gaddafi) had greatly alarmed the Middle East autocrats.

I didn't appose the first Iraq war. I look back at that and only agree that Sr should have finished the job. He falsely bet that after beating him back to the capital his own countrymen would take him out, but did not. Even though it failed, the intent of not taking him out was to send the message to the Arab world was that we were not going to be colonialist but they would have to want to take him out themselves. 

Jr however was wrong, because it was way after the fact and the dust had settled and Iraq was not invading another country. Plus they lied their way into that war and there were no WMDs. I have no love for Saddam, but the second war was falsely attached to Afghanistan and 9/11 when the hijackers were all from Saudi Arabia. 

And as far as Obama being weak that is bullshit, he did what Jr did not do in 8 years, he killed Bin Laden.

(December 2, 2018 at 8:25 am)Brian37 Wrote: And as far as Obama being weak that is bullshit, he did what Jr did not do in 8 years, he killed Bin Laden.

The credit for killing Bin Laden doesn't go to a president, it goes to the intelligence agencies

(December 2, 2018 at 8:31 am)Cherub786 Wrote:

(December 2, 2018 at 8:25 am)Brian37 Wrote: And as far as Obama being weak that is bullshit, he did what Jr did not do in 8 years, he killed Bin Laden.

The credit for killing Bin Laden doesn't go to a president, it goes to the intelligent agencies

Last i checked Bush Jr didn't personally kill Saddam either

(December 2, 2018 at 8:33 am)Amarok Wrote:

(December 2, 2018 at 8:31 am)Cherub786 Wrote: The credit for killing Bin Laden doesn't go to a president, it goes to the intelligent agencies

Last i checked Bush Jr didn't personally  kill Saddam either

Right, that was done by the Iraqi courts after Iraq was freed by Bush.

(December 2, 2018 at 8:40 am)Cherub786 Wrote:

(December 2, 2018 at 8:33 am)Amarok Wrote: Last i checked Bush Jr didn't personally  kill Saddam either

Right, that was done by the Iraqi courts after Iraq was freed by Bush.

Yup an Obama authorized the killing of Bin Laden neither Obama or Bush Killed either leader

Quote:Bush Sr.'s critical blunder was in not finishing the job of the First Gulf War and taking out Saddam.

It was in no wise a blunder, for three reasons:

1.  Under the UN Resolutions pertaining to the invasion, 'taking out Saddam' would have been illegal.

2.  It would have violated assurances given to other Arab countries (and to coalition members) that the US goal was ONLY to liberate Kuwait.

3.  Consequential of #2, it would have shattered US relations with ALL Arab states, resulting in the removal of your bases in those countries, and skyrocketing the price of oil.

In retrospect, not removing Saddam, rather than being a blunder, was a wise bit of statesmanship on Bush's part.

Boru

(December 2, 2018 at 8:44 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:Bush Sr.'s critical blunder was in not finishing the job of the First Gulf War and taking out Saddam.

It was in no wise a blunder, for three reasons:

1.  Under the UN Resolutions pertaining to the invasion, 'taking out Saddam' would have been illegal.

2.  It would have violated assurances given to other Arab countries (and to coalition members) that the US goal was ONLY to liberate Kuwait.

3.  Consequential of #2, it would have shattered US relations with ALL Arab states, resulting in the removal of your bases in those countries, and skyrocketing the price of oil.

In retrospect, not removing Saddam, rather than being a blunder, was a wise bit of statesmanship on Bush's part.

Boru

And what would the toothless UN do about it?
"Violated Assurances" is a rather large phrase for Arab countries

Quote:And what would the toothless UN do about it?

They wouldn't have blundered in to a country with a half cocked invasion plan 

Quote:"Violated Assurances" is a rather large phrase for Arab countries

Arab countries have that same right

(December 2, 2018 at 8:31 am)Cherub786 Wrote:

(December 2, 2018 at 8:25 am)Brian37 Wrote: And as far as Obama being weak that is bullshit, he did what Jr did not do in 8 years, he killed Bin Laden.

The credit for killing Bin Laden doesn't go to a president, it goes to the intelligence agencies

Um no, he made the final decision himself, even with the help of the INTEL. Unlike the current orange fuckface, Obama certainly would give credit to his intel, but he ultimately made that final decision. 

Bush fucked up by telegraphing his moves. An unannounced drone strike could have killed him long ago right after 9/11 before he escaped to Pakistan. Intel had the ability to do that even back then, but only the president acts based on what his intel tells him.