Quote: Suicide rate 9X the norm. Eating cake might be better than the solutions you have been using.  

Actually it's not and neither is are your platitudes and it's clear some of my methods work because I have stopped people from committing suicide . Your solution has a track record of zero proven trans lives saved . It's ideology nothing more .

Quote:The system certainly hasn't fucking STOPPED it either. If anything it's gotten worse because of the system. Treating people like they're too stupid and helpless to solve their own problems never works.

If the system includes me then it has to some degree because  I have stopped people from committing suicide . As opposed to your make believe solution that " let them eat cake " will magically solve the problem. A solution which is based on your opinion and nothing more .

Quote:What group is that exactly? Think it through dumbass. I'm saying that the trans community should find their own solutions that don't make over half of them try to kill themselves. Are you really such a fucking dumbass that you think the transgender community is openly hostile to itself?

And I'm saying your solution is vapid rhetoric that won't solve the problem and I have said the group don't play dumb .

Quote:And you're a douche that's making people want to kill themselves. 

Nope I'm the person doing the opposite . Your the person making up idiotic reasons for trans suicide  while offering nothing but empty conservative  platitudes as a solution . All the while supporting a political movement that's openly hostile to the trans community .

(December 24, 2018 at 4:54 am)Amarok Wrote:

Quote: Suicide rate 9X the norm. Eating cake might be better than the solutions you have been using.  

Actually it's not and neither is are your platitudes and it's clear some of my methods work because I have stopped people from committing suicide . Your solution has a track record of zero lives saved.


That's an incredibly uninformed comment since the suicide rate for homosexuals is significantly lower than transgenders. I've already talked about how their networking has empowered them to deal with social issues. If it's not been working then you must believe they are just as stupid as everyone else who thinks a suicide 9X the normal rate is even remotely acceptable

Quote:The system certainly hasn't fucking STOPPED it either. If anything it's gotten worse because of the system. Treating people like they're too stupid and helpless to solve their own problems never works.

If the system includes me then it has to some degree because  I have stopped people from committing suicide . As opposed to your make believe solution that " let them eat cake " will magically solve the problem. A solution which is based on your opinion and nothing more .

[b]Prove you've personally saved lives. You can't without violating ethical standards that ought to apply here. So claiming you have done so personally is beyond meaningless. 

My opinion is that empowering people is more productive than enabling them. If you think that opinion is not shared by a great many other people then you really are not qualified to do the job you claim to be doing.[/b]

Quote:What group is that exactly? Think it through dumbass. I'm saying that the trans community should find their own solutions that don't make over half of them try to kill themselves. Are you really such a fucking dumbass that you think the transgender community is openly hostile to itself?

And I'm saying your solution is stupid and won't solve the problem and I was referring to American conservatism a group that is openly hostile to the trans community and undermines what little help there is. 

Empowering people is stupid? When did I EVER say I was in a group called American Conservatism? Is making shit up about people really your best argument here?

Quote:And you're a douche that's making people want to kill themselves. 

Nope I'm the person doing the opposite . Your the person making up idiotic reasons for trans suicide  while offering nothing but empty conservative  platitudes as a solution .

No. You are insisting that they rely on you and the system you are part of to solve all their problems for them, and they are killing themselves. You might as well be slashing their fucking wrists personally since you don't even accept the possibility that other methods might keep them from doing it themselves.

Quote:That's an incredibly uninformed comment since the suicide rate for homosexuals is significantly lower than transgenders. I've already talked about how their networking has empowered them to deal with social issues. If it's not been working then you must believe they are just as stupid as everyone else who thinks a suicide 9X the normal rate is even remotely acceptablea

Actually it's not as networking is not is not the reason there rates are lower at least the argument that it did is inconclusive just as some claiming gay marriage laws helped suicide rates is not conclusive . Though I imagine both helped .As for the me thinking suicides are acceptable I never said it was and indeed the system needs improvement .But platitudes about “empowerment “won't do it .

Quote:
[b]Prove you've personally saved lives. You can't without violating ethical standards that ought to apply here. So claiming you have done so personally is beyond meaningless. [/b]

I know I have thus your statements about me are false 

Quote:
Empowering people is stupid? When did I EVER say I was in a group called American Conservatism? Is making shit up about people really your best argument here?

You clearly say your a conservative and you use American conservative arguments on countless other threads and empowering is just another word for “not my problem “ While mine is society needs to change not the trans people .

Quote:No. You are insisting that they rely on you and the system you are part of to solve all their problems for them, and they are killing themselves. You might as well be slashing their fucking wrists personally since you don't even accept the possibility that other methods might keep them from doing it themselves.

Nope I insist we fix the system instead of relying on your circumstantial evidence and empty platitudes and made up reasons that they are killing themselves which won't solve the problem .

(December 24, 2018 at 5:55 am)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:That's an incredibly uninformed comment since the suicide rate for homosexuals is significantly lower than transgenders. I've already talked about how their networking has empowered them to deal with social issues. If it's not been working then you must believe they are just as stupid as everyone else who thinks a suicide 9X the normal rate is even remotely acceptablea

Actually it's not as networking is not is not the reason there rates are lower at least the argument that it did is inconclusive just as some claiming gay marriage laws helped suicide rates is not conclusive . Though I imagine both  helped .As for the me thinking suicides are acceptable I never said it was and indeed the system needs improvement .But platitudes about “empowerment “won't do it .

And empty promises that the system will be fixed to magically solve the problem by passing unenforceable laws because "It will be better this time" has never worked. 

The suicide rate for people with gender disorders (GD as a blanket term) in the US was much lower in the 1950's than it is now. For both sexes, it was only 4.5 suicides per 100,000. As is usual, the rate for boys was higher than that of girls, 6.5 vs. 2.6. During the '60s and ‘70s, GD suicides trended upward, reaching a peak in 1994 with a combined rate of 13.6. The overall trend declined slightly and then was more or less flat until 2011, when it began to climb again.

There have been TEMPORARY reductions in suicide rates among gays and transgenders both due to the passage of legislation, but it always climbs higher than the point at which it fell.

Quote:
[b]Prove you've personally saved lives. You can't without violating ethical standards that ought to apply here. So claiming you have done so personally is beyond meaningless. [/b]

I know I have thus your statements about me are false 

My statement about you not being able to provide evidence that you have ever personally stopped someone from committing suicide is entirely accurate. I'm not saying you have or have not. I'm saying that claiming to when there is no way to prove it without violating the ethics of what you claim your job is is an empty, valueless claim and fails on every level to be a persuasive argument. 

Quote:
Empowering people is stupid? When did I EVER say I was in a group called American Conservatism? Is making shit up about people really your best argument here?

You clearly say your a conservative and you use American conservative arguments on countless other threads and empowering is just another word for “not my problem “ While mine is society needs to change  not the trans people .

I realize you're stupid, so I'm working under the theory that you honestly don't know what the word empowerment means. I really want you to explain in painstaking detail why you don't believe that people ought to be able to solve their own problems. Please include why you believe transgenders are too stupid to figure out how to feed and clothe themselves without your little system. I really want you to be clear on these points.

If you want to learn a little about what empowerment actually is, educate yourself on the success of Black Wall Street. That is an amazing story of empowerment that resulted in one of the most shameful and tragic stories in American history simply because it all took place a good 50 years ahead of it's time.

If you want to learn what empowerment is educate yourself on minority banking systems like the Black Banks, or the money lending systems that Hindus, Koreans, and other immigrants have created to bypass the discrimination they believe exists in western corporate banks. 

If you want to learn about empowerment, educate yourself on the successes of schools that teach the disabled trades that allow them to be self-sufficient, or the rehabilitation programs by veterans groups to provide jobs and homes for veterans. 

Fuck, just educate yourself instead of being such an ignorant twat.

Quote:No. You are insisting that they rely on you and the system you are part of to solve all their problems for them, and they are killing themselves. You might as well be slashing their fucking wrists personally since you don't even accept the possibility that other methods might keep them from doing it themselves.

Nope I insist we fix the system instead of relying on your circumstantial evidence and empty platitudes and made up reasons that they are killing themselves which won't solve the problem .

So far the only fixes you have proposed to your Bureaucracy-O-Doom has been to make even more decisions for trans people because you don't think they can be trusted to make their own, and to more pass laws that will somehow magically work when they have never done so before. 

Quote:And empty promises that the system will be fixed to magically solve the problem by passing unenforceable laws because "It will be better this time" has never worked. 

The suicide rate for people with gender disorders in the US was much lower in the 1950's than it is now. For both sexes, it was only 4.5 suicides per 100,000. As is usual, the rate for boys was higher than that of girls, 6.5 vs. 2.6. During the '60s and ‘70s, GD suicides trended upward, reaching a peak in 1994 with a combined rate of 13.6. The overall trend declined slightly and then was more or less flat until 2011, when it began again to climb. There have been TEMPORARY reductions in suicide rates among gays and transgenders both due to the passage of legislation, but it always climbs higher than the point at which it fell.

stating statistics does not give us a cause nor does it support your conclusion that networking magically made things better or that the system can't be fixed you want to baby out with the bath water .

Quote:My statement about you not being able to provide evidence that you have ever personally stopped someone from committing suicide is entirely accurate. I'm not saying you have or have not. I'm saying that claiming to when there is no way to prove it without violating the ethics of what you claim your job is is an empty, valueless claim and fails on every level to be a persuasive argument. 

Actually the fact I know it's true is quite valuable to me 

Quote:realize you're stupid, so I'm working under the theory that you honestly don't know what the word empowerment means. I really want you to explain in painstaking detail why you don't believe that people ought to be able to solve their own problems. Please include why you believe transgenders are too stupid to figure out how to feed and clothe themselves without your little system. I really want you to be clear on these points.

If you want to learn a little about what empowerment actually is, educate yourself on the success of Black Wall Street. That is an amazing story of empowerment that resulted in one of the most shameful and tragic stories in American history simply because it all took place a good 50 years ahead of it's time.

If you want to learn what empowerment is educate yourself on minority banking systems like the Black Banks, or the money lending systems that Hindus, Koreans, and other immigrants have created to bypass the discrimination they believe exists in western corporate banks. 

If you want to learn about empowerment, educate you yourself on the successes of schools that teach the disabled trades that allow them to be self-sufficient, or the rehabilitation programs by veterans groups to provide jobs and homes for veterans. 

Fuck, just educate yourself instead of being such an ignorant twat.

So your whole case is a bunch of incidentals all of which I could point  out the problems with as a method of getting around discrimination . I know your stupid and ignorant and have religious devotion to the magically power of empowerment but that's all it is .

Quote:So far the only fixes you have proposed to your Bureaucracy-O-Doom has been to make even more decisions for trans people because you don't think they can be trusted to make their own, and to more pass laws that will somehow magically work when they have never done so before. 

And your solution is incidentals and magic empowerment .

Amarok, you can barely put two coherent thoughts together. Your entire intellectual discourse consists of one line quips, denials, and avoidance. Children understand more of the written word than you do. I honestly feel sorry for anyone who has the misfortune of taking you seriously.

Lots of luck trans people! If this is what you want for yourselves, you'll need all the luck you can get.

Quote:Amarok, you can barely put two coherent thoughts together.

And pointless prattle.

Quote:Your entire intellectual discourse consists of one line quips, denials, and avoidance.

Nope but your discourse consists of ,talking points, rhetoric  and supposed  examples that fall short of both.

Quote:Children understand more of the written word than you do. I honestly feel sorry for anyone who has the misfortune of taking you seriously.

So more prattle and i have far more sympathy for people who take you seriously. which i imagine is a short list .

Quote:Lots of luck trans people! if this is what you want for yourselves, you'll need all the luck you can get

Lot's of luck trans people . If this fool and his" empowerment" doctrine  are what you want for yourselves then you'll need all the help you can get .

---

(December 23, 2018 at 10:09 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(December 23, 2018 at 2:58 am)Maketakunai Wrote:
I'm glad you're happy. Kudos for asking a relevant question! My answer is actually... "I don't know what the answer is, but I know what the answer isn't." In fact, I'm not even sure that more laws will be the answer, and here's why.

Laws provide moral guidance in any society; laws also force those who break them (except for criminal cases) to at least be willing to commit perjury.

But Jeh you see if the Trans community open up a bank and believe in the magic empowerment fairies then things will get better .Because it's you and evil victim mentality and unwillingness to "network" that's the problem. Because you should be the one who has to fix it because the religion of conservative  empowerment says so ........

So lets recap 

He cites some examples that don't back his conclusion and drive by's some names that don't back his point all . Related to his zealot chanting that "empowerment" alone will make things better And wants to shift the problems of discrimination onto minorities rather then onto society . And tries discount my actual first hand experience .

Myself  on the other hand argues  we should not pussy out and actually fix the current system rather then shift the problems of discrimination onto minorities were it should not be  . Rejects the idea "empowerment " and "networking " alone can solve those problem and .Oh and I actually has first hand experience on this .

I leave it up to the reader to decide which system they would rather have

(December 24, 2018 at 8:16 am)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:Amarok, you can barely put two coherent thoughts together.

And pointless prattle.

Quote:Your entire intellectual discourse consists of one line quips, denials, and avoidance.

Nope but your discourse consists of ,talking points, rhetoric  and supposed  examples that fall short of both.

Quote:Children understand more of the written word than you do. I honestly feel sorry for anyone who has the misfortune of taking you seriously.

So more prattle and i have far more sympathy for people who take you seriously. which i imagine is a short list .

Quote:Lots of luck trans people! if this is what you want for yourselves, you'll need all the luck you can get

Lot's of luck trans people . If this fool and his" empowerment" doctrine  are what you want for yourselves then you'll need all the help you can get .

---

(December 23, 2018 at 10:09 am)Jehanne Wrote: Laws provide moral guidance in any society; laws also force those who break them (except for criminal cases) to at least be willing to commit perjury.

But Jeh you see if the Trans community open up a bank and believe in the magic empowerment fairies then things will get better .Because it's you and evil victim mentality and unwillingness to "network" that's the problem. Because you should be the one who has to fix it because the religion of conservative  empowerment says so ........

We're just asking for civil rights protections, similar to race, sex and religion. What's the issue here?

(December 25, 2018 at 1:49 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(December 24, 2018 at 8:16 am)Amarok Wrote: And pointless prattle.


Nope but  your discourse  consists of ,talking points, rhetoric  and supposed  examples that fall short of both.



So more prattle and i have far more sympathy for people who take you seriously. which i imagine is a short list .


Lot's of luck trans people . If this fool and his" empowerment" doctrine  are what you want for yourselves then you'll need all the help you can get .

---

But Jeh you see if the Trans community open up a bank and believe in the magic empowerment fairies then things will get better .Because it's you and evil victim mentality and unwillingness to "network" that's the problem. Because you should be the one who has to fix it because the religion of conservative  empowerment says so ........

We're just asking for civil rights protections, similar to race, sex and religion.  What's the issue here?

Oh alternate universe he lives in

1. Laws can never work because they have been limited  (fun fact it said it took Edison 1000 attempts to get the light bulb apparently he should have just given up and used a candle ) and instead you need to apparently concede to the bigots and have to create a whole alternative structure  simply to survive discrimination you didn't cause and if you think otherwise your being a "perpetual victim" 

2. None of the rights you want are really right or are "special rights"  or aren't being denied  according to him 

3. People who want trans people to live and work to save their lives are causing trans people to die and not the moronic bigots that are actually causing the problem 

4. Oh and apparently the rights "empowerment doctrine "  isn't them simply shifting the blame and isn't filled with the bigots that are causing the discrimination in the first place and giving a platform and protection to the them