(February 3, 2019 at 2:14 pm)pocaracas Wrote: It's true, there is footage

Love me some Mel!!

Boru

(February 2, 2019 at 11:21 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(February 2, 2019 at 10:31 am)CDF47 Wrote:

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He conquered sin when He was here for man.  He atoned for sin.  He definitely got the job done when He was here.  His message is followed by church members the world over still today.

He did not meet the jews definition of the messiah. There were some who came closer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants

By the way the jewish and Christian definition of messiah are different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

.

He meets the Scriptural prophecies of the Messiah, some 40 or so prophecies.

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(February 2, 2019 at 3:03 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(February 2, 2019 at 10:31 am)CDF47 Wrote: I try really hard to be an honest person so that is not true what you say about me. 

You are about to demonstrate your dishonesty.

(February 2, 2019 at 10:31 am)CDF47 Wrote: I am not brainwashed either. 

Lie #1. Didn't take long.

(February 2, 2019 at 10:31 am)CDF47 Wrote: I do not advocate slavery. 

Then you are against the bible.

(February 2, 2019 at 10:31 am)CDF47 Wrote: I know the Lord allowed slavery and had rules for it but it existed in those times and He just added regulation to it. 

Regulations? Regulations like that it is OK to entrap your slaves?

(February 2, 2019 at 10:31 am)CDF47 Wrote: It was to be led by righteous leaders that would take care of their slaves, not abuse them. 

Righteous? So it's OK to beat your slaves as much as you like up to the point of death?

(February 2, 2019 at 10:31 am)CDF47 Wrote: So I am against slavery.

Then reject your magic book.

This is the thing about you religious types. You are against slavery. The bible is not. Rather than condemn the evil tome, you invent stupid excuses for why it's OK out of some twisted pretzel logic. It is this fundamental principle of the cover-up that gave rise to the pedo scandals. You are doing the exact same thing because your religion makes you do it.

I choose to live a religious life.  The Lord made it clear He exists.  I support what the Lord says in the Scriptures.  There are reasons for all of it.  Slaves already existed in that day and He added regulation for them.

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(February 2, 2019 at 3:27 pm)Nomad Wrote:

(February 1, 2019 at 12:58 pm)CDF47 Wrote: Hey Gae.  Could you ever be a deist at least?  Just curious.  Also, what if common ancestry proves not to be true.  It is a debated topic.  Could you ever accept Christianity?  If so, what would it take.  Try to be serious on this one.  I am curious.

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No wife.  Three masculine persons make up the Godhead.

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What do you mean by that?  Can you elaborate?

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Dr. Meyer was never a fan of the trial from my understanding.  I don't think he liked the idea to begin with of pushing this into public schools the way they went about it.  I think he has alternative plans for education on the subject.  

Cheers man!

Per Genesis 1 the god el and his subordinates, the elohim of which yhwh was one, created the world.  Even in the modern, expunged, versions the book treats the creation as a collective activity often enough to get the original meaning.

Are you telling me that yoi are a good and knowledgeable christian while not even knowing basic facts of your holy book?  Not surprising really.

The three persons of the Godhead are co-equal.  The Godhead created the universe.

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(February 2, 2019 at 5:20 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: There is another important revealing reference to Yahweh being one of the sons of El Elyon.
In Deuteronomy 32:8, it says that the most high god, (NOT Yahweh), apportioned out the nations to the various gods, and Israel got Yahweh.
This verse has some REALLY bungled translations, but its original is quite shocking. (It's a POEM BTW) ... something most editions don't even make obvious.
בְּהַנְחֵל עֶלְיוֹן גּוֹיִם          בְּהַפְרִידֹו בְּנֵי אָדָם
יַצֵּב גְּבֻלֹת עַמִּים            לְמִסְפַּר בְּנֵי שֹׁר־אֵל
וַיְהִי חֵלֶק יהוה עַמֹּו        יַעֲקֹב חֶבֶל נַחֲלָתֹו

When Elyon gave the nations an inheritance,
     when he divided humankind,
he set the bounds of the peoples
     according to the number of Bull El’s children,
and Yahweh’s portion was his people,
     Jacob, the lot of his inheritance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)

We are all the children of the Father God.

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(February 2, 2019 at 11:59 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote:

(February 2, 2019 at 10:31 am)CDF47 Wrote: He conquered sin when He was here for man.  He atoned for sin.  He definitely got the job done when He was here.  His message is followed by church members the world over still today.

Who cares? Good for him....I guess?  People still do fucked up shit.  If it weren't for christer belief...maybe they'd own it.  Talk about a shit god that doesn't matter.

All Christians have improvements to make.

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(February 3, 2019 at 1:11 am)Bucky Ball Wrote:

Quote:He definitely got the job done when He was here.

Atonement for  sin was never the job of a messiah. Christians cooked that up when the end-times did not arrive as both Jesus and Paul (mistakenly) thought was immanent.
If he "conquered sin" then why is it the world is EXACTLY the same as before he (supposedly) did that.

Buncha pious sentimental drivel, signifying nothing.

The world is not the same.  There are over 2 billion Christians on Earth, about 1/3 of the population.  He has changed the world.  His atonement for sin was foreshadowed in the sacrificial system of killing animals to atone for sin in the OT.

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(February 3, 2019 at 1:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:CDF47 Wrote: [url=https://atheistforums.org/post-1882054.html#pid1882054][/url]I know the Lord allowed slavery and had rules for it but it existed in those times and He just added regulation to it. 

Pity he never got round to putting in a regulation along the lines of, 'Thou shalt not own people.  Pots, urns and shovels thou mayest own, but not people.  Get it?  Owning people is not allowed.'

Boru

God allowed it though, so it was allowed.

(February 3, 2019 at 4:06 pm)CDF47 Wrote: [quote='downbeatplumb' pid='1882065' dateline='1549120863']

He did not meet the jews definition of the messiah. There were some who came closer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants

By the way the jewish and Christian definition of messiah are different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

.

(February 3, 2019 at 4:06 pm)CDF47 Wrote: He meets the Scriptural prophecies of the Messiah, some 40 or so prophecies.

Actually no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testam..._Testament

Quote:The New Testament frequently cites Jewish scripture to support the claim of the Early Christians that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, and to support faith in Jesus as the Christ and his imminent expected Second Coming. The majority of these quotations and references are taken from the Book of Isaiah, but they range over the entire corpus of Jewish writings. People of the Jewish faith do not regard any of these as having been fulfilled by Jesus, and in some cases do not regard them as messianic prophecies at all. These either were not prophecies (the verses make no claim of predicting anything) or the verses do not explicitly refer to the Messiah.[1][2]

Quote:Judaism holds that the Messiah has not yet arrived namely because of the belief that the Messianic Age has not started yet. Jews believe that the Messiah will completely change life on earth and that pain and suffering will be conquered, thus initiating the Kingdom of God and the Messianic Age on earth. Christian belief varies, with one segment holding that the Kingdom of God is not worldly at all, while another believe that the Kingdom is both spiritual and will be of this world in a Messianic Age where Jesus will rule on the throne of David. Most Jews hold that the Kingdom of God will be on earth and the Messiah will occupy the throne of David. Christians (in particular Evangelicals) who believe that it is both/and claim that it is spiritual and within right now, and physical and outward at the return of the Messiah.
While Christians have cited the following as prophecies referencing the life, status, and legacy of Jesus, Jewish scholars maintain that these passages are not messianic prophecies and are based on mistranslations/misunderstanding of the Hebrew texts.[10]
Haggai 2:6-9

Quote:The idea that Bethlehem was to be the birthplace of the Messiah appears in no Jewish source before the 4th century CE.[47] Jewish tradition appears to have emphasised the idea that the birthplace of the Messiah was not known.[48]
Many modern scholars consider the birth stories as inventions by the Gospel writers, created to glorify Jesus and present his birth as the fulfillment of prophecy.[49][50] However, since the birth in Bethlehem is one of the few common elements in the Gospel accounts, some scholars believe that both writers were drawing on an existing Christian tradition.

Quote:Among Christian believers, opinion varies as to which Old Testament passages are messianic prophecies and which are not, and whether the prophecies they claim to have been fulfilled are intended to be prophecies. The authors of these Old Testament "prophecies" often appear to be describing events that had already occurred. For example, the New Testament verse Matthew 2:14 states, "So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'Out of Egypt I called my son.'" This is referring to the Old Testament verse Hosea 11:1. However, that passage reads, "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son." Skeptics say that the Hosea passage clearly is talking about a historical event and therefore the passage clearly is not a prophecy.
According to modern scholarship, the suffering servant described in Isaiah chapter 53 is actually the Jewish people.[2][77][78][79][80][81] According to some, the rabbinic response, e.g., Rashi and Maimonides, is that although the suffering servant passage clearly is prophetic and even if Psalm 22 is prophetic, the Messiah has not come yet, therefore, the passages could not possibly be talking about Jesus. As noted above, there is some controversy about the phrase "they have pierced my hands and my feet".
For modern Bible scholars, either the verses make no claim of predicting future events, or the verses make no claim of speaking about the Messiah.[1][2

So jesus was not considered the jewish messiah.

Quote:God allowed it though, so it was allowed.

If God allowed it, God approves of it.  Can you think of any reason why a God who claims to love mankind would approve of something as inimical to human happiness as slavery?

  'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  He did not, however, love the world enough to put a stop to the misery begotten out of chattel slavery, a misery that has ruined the lives of untold tens of millions of people, from the dawn of civilization to the present day.  This is why God is a malicious prick [edit mine].'

Boru

(February 3, 2019 at 4:06 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I choose to live a religious life.  The Lord made it clear He exists.  I support what the Lord says in the Scriptures.  There are reasons for all of it.  Slaves already existed in that day and He added regulation for them.

That is the most idiotic argument there is.
Here's why.
According to you, god was there when he made the first humans, right?
God was there ever since, always!
So, at some point, god, being there and loving all of humanity, didn't mind that some humans started enslaving other humans.
Didn't mind it at all for centuries, until some regulation was required... In a very particular location of this very huge planet. Everywhere else where slaving happened, "No regulation for you!"

And to counter this, you'll tell me that god only cared about his people, those who believed in his existence. All other humans were destined to some eternity of absence of his divine presence... But he was there, from the start, he was there and could have kept everyone aware of his existence, but no... Somehow the knowledge of his existence became subject for debate, while some people somehow came to think that some other gods were actually in existence... And the one true God just couldn't care enough to set that straight, right from the onset!

But hundreds of years after writing became available, now was the magic moment to set things straight. Now good could speak... Or write... Or not actually either... Humans would do the speaking and the writing, claiming it to be from divine inspiration. But was it really?

Was the regulation of slavery a divine inspiration, or a need to keep the growing slave population from revolting and just taking over civilization?
Was it a social move? A religious move? Or actually a political move?

The god of the scriptures seems either man-made, or not caring. Either way, that is not the god you like to think it is, but your faith will prevent you from understanding this. You will hold on dearly to the god in your mind, trying your best to compartmentalize all the excuses needed to accept the clearly man-made scripture as "divinely inspired".
And that is sad, for someone who claims to be highly educated and capable of independent thought... But you are not the only one in that position... Like you, there are millions and millions, so you feel on good company and that's enough.
Have a nice life, CDF. There is a very good chance that you are wrong about this topic of DNA and god, but it won't change the practical aspects of your life, eating, sleeping, walking, working, etc.

So slavery "already" existed ... 

Was he sleeping when it started ? 
What a stupid argument.

(February 3, 2019 at 4:36 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(February 3, 2019 at 4:06 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(February 2, 2019 at 11:21 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: He did not meet the jews definition of the messiah. There were some who came closer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants

By the way the jewish and Christian definition of messiah are different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

.

(February 3, 2019 at 4:06 pm)CDF47 Wrote: He meets the Scriptural prophecies of the Messiah, some 40 or so prophecies.

Actually no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testam..._Testament

Quote:The New Testament frequently cites Jewish scripture to support the claim of the Early Christians that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, and to support faith in Jesus as the Christ and his imminent expected Second Coming. The majority of these quotations and references are taken from the Book of Isaiah, but they range over the entire corpus of Jewish writings. People of the Jewish faith do not regard any of these as having been fulfilled by Jesus, and in some cases do not regard them as messianic prophecies at all. These either were not prophecies (the verses make no claim of predicting anything) or the verses do not explicitly refer to the Messiah.[1][2]

Quote:Judaism holds that the Messiah has not yet arrived namely because of the belief that the Messianic Age has not started yet. Jews believe that the Messiah will completely change life on earth and that pain and suffering will be conquered, thus initiating the Kingdom of God and the Messianic Age on earth. Christian belief varies, with one segment holding that the Kingdom of God is not worldly at all, while another believe that the Kingdom is both spiritual and will be of this world in a Messianic Age where Jesus will rule on the throne of David. Most Jews hold that the Kingdom of God will be on earth and the Messiah will occupy the throne of David. Christians (in particular Evangelicals) who believe that it is both/and claim that it is spiritual and within right now, and physical and outward at the return of the Messiah.
While Christians have cited the following as prophecies referencing the life, status, and legacy of Jesus, Jewish scholars maintain that these passages are not messianic prophecies and are based on mistranslations/misunderstanding of the Hebrew texts.[10]
Haggai 2:6-9

Quote:The idea that Bethlehem was to be the birthplace of the Messiah appears in no Jewish source before the 4th century CE.[47] Jewish tradition appears to have emphasised the idea that the birthplace of the Messiah was not known.[48]
Many modern scholars consider the birth stories as inventions by the Gospel writers, created to glorify Jesus and present his birth as the fulfillment of prophecy.[49][50] However, since the birth in Bethlehem is one of the few common elements in the Gospel accounts, some scholars believe that both writers were drawing on an existing Christian tradition.

Quote:Among Christian believers, opinion varies as to which Old Testament passages are messianic prophecies and which are not, and whether the prophecies they claim to have been fulfilled are intended to be prophecies. The authors of these Old Testament "prophecies" often appear to be describing events that had already occurred. For example, the New Testament verse Matthew 2:14 states, "So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'Out of Egypt I called my son.'" This is referring to the Old Testament verse Hosea 11:1. However, that passage reads, "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son." Skeptics say that the Hosea passage clearly is talking about a historical event and therefore the passage clearly is not a prophecy.
According to modern scholarship, the suffering servant described in Isaiah chapter 53 is actually the Jewish people.[2][77][78][79][80][81] According to some, the rabbinic response, e.g., Rashi and Maimonides, is that although the suffering servant passage clearly is prophetic and even if Psalm 22 is prophetic, the Messiah has not come yet, therefore, the passages could not possibly be talking about Jesus. As noted above, there is some controversy about the phrase "they have pierced my hands and my feet".
For modern Bible scholars, either the verses make no claim of predicting future events, or the verses make no claim of speaking about the Messiah.[1][2

So jesus was not considered the jewish messiah.

The Jews are wrong in these regards.  Jesus is the Messiah.

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(February 3, 2019 at 4:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:God allowed it though, so it was allowed.

If God allowed it, God approves of it.  Can you think of any reason why a God who claims to love mankind would approve of something as inimical to human happiness as slavery?

  'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  He did not, however, love the world enough to put a stop to the misery begotten out of chattel slavery, a misery that has ruined the lives of untold tens of millions of people, from the dawn of civilization to the present day.  This is why God is a malicious prick [edit mine].'

Boru

Slavery under righteous owners he expected.  It was already in place and he added regulations to it.  So you believe in God but don't like Him?  He is our Father and Creator.

Slavery apologism, awesome. The whole "father and creator" bit just makes it worse.  Firstly, we're not some character in a books creation - the reverse is true.  Secondly, negligent and absentee fathers are generally frowned upon.

The pile of unnecessary and shittifying beliefs just grows and grows and grows......and accounts for the abrupt decline of fundamentalism. We know better than to believe these things, and those who still respect the broad outline of a god have abandoned such notions.

(February 4, 2019 at 10:08 am)CDF47 Wrote:

(February 3, 2019 at 4:36 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

The Jews are wrong in these regards.  Jesus is the Messiah.

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(February 3, 2019 at 4:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If God allowed it, God approves of it.  Can you think of any reason why a God who claims to love mankind would approve of something as inimical to human happiness as slavery?

  'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  He did not, however, love the world enough to put a stop to the misery begotten out of chattel slavery, a misery that has ruined the lives of untold tens of millions of people, from the dawn of civilization to the present day.  This is why God is a malicious prick [edit mine].'

Boru

Slavery under righteous owners he expected.  It was already in place and he added regulations to it.  So you believe in God but don't like Him?  He is our Father and Creator.

Mate, you don’t have to believe a character is real to not like them. I personally despise Voldemort.

(February 4, 2019 at 10:08 am)CDF47 Wrote: Slavery under righteous owners he expected.  It was already in place and he added regulations to it.  So you believe in God but don't like Him?  He is our Father and Creator.

How could slavery "already be in place" if your god was there from the beginning of the universe?