The trouble with ancient wisdom is that it's answers keep turning out to be hilariously wrong, Lek.  It doesn't matter whether or not science can ever answer all the questions or every question, or if it discovers some new thing - that much is already an answered question.

You were only indicating your preference for discredited fairy tales in that statement, nothing more.

(February 19, 2019 at 3:07 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: The trouble with ancient wisdom is that it's answers keep turning out to be hilariously wrong, Lek.  It doesn't matter whether or not science can ever answer all the questions or every question, or if it discovers some new thing - that much is already an answered question.

You were only indicating your preference for discredited fairy tales in that statement, nothing more.

Yep. That realisation led me to look much more critically at  the "god is an alien" nonsense . I must have read dozens of those books in the 70's.  A waste? Not al all, all attempts to learn are worth while, some more so than others.

My all time favourite graffito;

"Religion: Man's attempt to communicate with the weather"

How's that working out?

(February 19, 2019 at 6:10 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Yep. That realisation led me to look much more critically at  the "god is an alien" nonsense . I must have read dozens of those books in the 70's.  A waste? Not al all, all attempts to learn are worth while, some more so than others.

My all time favourite graffito;

"Religion: Man's attempt to communicate with the weather"

I -love- that sort of shit.  It's wrong, but it's instructive in that it provides a window, by creating a new theology in real time, on how the old theology was likely created.

(February 19, 2019 at 6:16 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote:

(February 19, 2019 at 6:10 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Yep. That realisation led me to look much more critically at  the "god is an alien" nonsense . I must have read dozens of those books in the 70's.  A waste? Not al all, all attempts to learn are worth while, some more so than others.

My all time favourite graffito;

"Religion: Man's attempt to communicate with the weather"

I -love- that sort of shit.  It's wrong, but it's instructive in that it provides a window, by creating a new theology in real time, on how the old theology was likely created.

 I loved it for a long time.  After reading quite a few of those books I noticed the authors began quoting each other.

I recently came across a convinced Ufologist. Oh dear, like trying to have rational conversation with a Christian apologist; impervious to  reason or scholarly method. (probably not the case with all  apologists,  just the one's I've I've run across in the last 40 years or so)

As you are interested in the process, I highly recommend 'New Heaven New Earth'  by Kenhelm Burridge.  He examines the process of the growth of millennial movements; the stages are actually predictable. Cheap at Amazon, possibly cheaper as an E book, even cheaper second hand. I studied this book as part of a university course in Anthropology. I think it's excellent.


ADDENDUM; Just thought of this; Christianity is a failed millennial movement. Jesus' disciples expected Jesus to return, and with him, the new millennium, within their lifetime. Christians are still waiting for the second coming.

I tend to agree with Dawkins in thinking that if there is some sort of "supreme intelligence" (whatever that even means, because theists refuse to even define what that supreme intelligence would look like), it must have evolved through some kind of Darwinian evolution. I think that nature encompasses all that there as, as there has never been anything to exist that has been demonstrated to exist "outside" of nature. In that way, I'm certainly a naturalist.

(February 19, 2019 at 10:04 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: I tend to agree with Dawkins in thinking that if there is some sort of "supreme intelligence" (whatever that even means, because theists refuse to even define what that supreme intelligence would look like), it must have evolved through some kind of Darwinian evolution. I think that nature encompasses all that there as, as there has never been anything to exist that has been demonstrated to exist "outside" of nature. In that way, I'm certainly a naturalist.

Or it could've always been, and with full storage of all information that could be known by such an entity. In this sense it can be a supreme intelligence without having to evolve.

There are ways to imagine a seemingly possible god without having to accept Dawkins' thinking.

(February 19, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Grandizer Wrote:

(February 19, 2019 at 10:04 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: I tend to agree with Dawkins in thinking that if there is some sort of "supreme intelligence" (whatever that even means, because theists refuse to even define what that supreme intelligence would look like), it must have evolved through some kind of Darwinian evolution. I think that nature encompasses all that there as, as there has never been anything to exist that has been demonstrated to exist "outside" of nature. In that way, I'm certainly a naturalist.

Or it could've always been, and with full storage of all information that could be known by such an entity. In this sense it can be a supreme intelligence without having to evolve.

There are ways to imagine a seemingly possible god without having to accept Dawkins' thinking.

Provide evidence for such a god then. Hell, define the god first, then provide evidence. If you can't, then thanks for your time.

And why should we take anything philosophers have to say seriously, when it comes to science?