(March 23, 2019 at 3:14 pm)epronovost Wrote:

(March 23, 2019 at 2:52 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: The people most likely to follow the ideas outlined in the manifesto probably already have access to it or they know how to get their hands on it.

Actually no, a lot of the people most likely to follow the ideas outlined in the manifesto are still kids or haven't sinked into the sewers of internet yet. No imminent threat wold impacted by this move, but you have to consider the long term.

What age do you suppose that is?  Kids grow up on the Internet...from birth forward.  

Many are deeper into the sewers of the Internet than parents want to even think about.

(March 23, 2019 at 2:52 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: The people most likely to follow the ideas outlined in the manifesto probably already have access to it or they know how to get their hands on it.  It's already out there and there's no way to put that genie back in the bottle.  

A ban also adds the allure of 'forbidden fruit'.  

Censoring it isn't a good plan.

Again, I get the "forbidden fruit" argument, but this isn't the same thing.

It is also illegal to distribute plans on bomb making materials or how to poison your neighbor or spouse. That is more the context of the intent. If you want to argue will this tactic work, that is a different subject. I am only arguing intent.

Again, there was a time in America when bigotry allowed lynchings of blacks, even to the point there were mass productions of post cards, like you would buy on a vacation of mountain view, or Hawaiian sunset today, but with blacks, back then hanging from trees. People would market and sell those postcards as if it was like going to the beach. 

Hitler allowed tons of speech that lead to the Night Of Broken Glass. And we all know how that turned out.

Maybe everyone who agrees with NZ's decision about this manifesto could all get together and hold a book burning.  Be sure to bring along any book that might possibly compel someone to do violence.

Boru

(March 23, 2019 at 9:52 am)Yonadav Wrote:   Everyone has become so fucking convinced that everyone else is an idiot, that no one trusts anyone else to read anything that they might disagree with, as if the common folk are too dumb to process information that isn't screened by the state.

Especially cranky old white men.

(March 23, 2019 at 6:30 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: I can see why they are doing this. Its to try to stop this bastard getting a following.

I honestly am conflicted on this as I can see the arguments for both sides and agree with both to an extent.

They should say so then: "I'd ask people to destroy this material, because we don't want that bastard to have a following."

Making it illegal is a very different issue, indeed, and I'd say it's a greater threat to a democratic society than the deaths even of a few dozen people would be.

(March 23, 2019 at 4:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Maybe everyone who agrees with NZ's decision about this manifesto could all get together and hold a book burning.  Be sure to bring along any book that might possibly compel someone to do violence.

Boru

[scurries for his dusty old stack of bibles]

(March 23, 2019 at 6:23 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(March 23, 2019 at 4:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Maybe everyone who agrees with NZ's decision about this manifesto could all get together and hold a book burning.  Be sure to bring along any book that might possibly compel someone to do violence.

Boru

[scurries for his dusty old stack of bibles]

[digs out nazi uniform from a locked cupboard]

Quote:Making it illegal is a very different issue, indeed,

Not really 

Quote:and I'd say it's a greater threat to a democratic society than the deaths even of a few dozen people would be

So how many people then ?

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Quote:Also, the banning of literature like this has been predicted in just about every bit of radical and racist literature.

One wonders why (sarcasm )

Quote:Timothy McVeigh was a big fan of The Turner Diaries.

He was a fan of a lot of things 

Quote:One of the things that Turner was rebelling against was the banning of literature that the state considered to be dangerous. It's pretty sad to see the predictions of hate literature coming true.

Not nearly as sad as the rise and acceptance of it's racism

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Quote:Agree to disagree.  There is NO valid reason for censorship, ever. People who are going to shoot up mosques (or churches or schools or synagogues) are going to do so irrespective of this manifesto.  What's next - censor the internet?  Pre-censor books before publication?

So you deny the effects of propaganda and deceitful idea

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Quote: Everyone has become so fucking convinced that everyone else is an idiot, that no one trusts anyone else to read anything that they might disagree with, as if the common folk are too dumb to process information that isn't screened by the state.

History supports this 

Quote:It is quite frankly unbelievable how frightened formerly liberal democracies are becoming of free speech. Illiberal democracies are springing up everywhere, and formerly liberal democracies are doing horrible slides into illiberal values. 

Mindless blather

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Quote:'Whenever a government says "This you may not read, this you may not see, this you are forbidden to know", the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how noble the motives.' - Heinlein

Actually it's the other way around

Quote:Making it illegal is a very different issue, indeed,

Quote:Not really 

Yes, really. Since it is now illegal to own this piece of trash, if you are found with it in your possession, you could be fined or jailed or both (as well as having the pamphlet confiscated).  That is a WORLD away from asking people to do something voluntarily.

Quote:'Whenever a government says "This you may not read, this you may not see, this you are forbidden to know", the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how noble the motives.' - Heinlein

Quote:Actually it's the other way around

Oh, silly me. You're right, of course.  Free speech, an open society and freedom of inquiry is what leads to tyrannical societies.  Thanks for the correction.

Boru

I see it like this, today's administration denies the voice of the racist. Next administration denies the voice of the secular humanist. 

Besides, I want to know who the wackos are.Let them speak.