You'd believe alot of things based on crazy shit, clearly. The only things you won't believe, apparently, are the words of christ, or gods demonstrable ability to make you out of a monkey, lol.

(April 1, 2019 at 5:00 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(April 1, 2019 at 3:21 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Then you’re wrong. Come on, CDF. All you have to do is look around, and it becomes obvious that slow changes over time added up to large changes. The proof is right in front of you, and if you disagree with me then you’re wrong. The evidence is life itself. How does it feel to have your own argument written back to you?

You see, if you’re not responsible for providing evidence that we were designed, or how we were designed, then neither am I, or anyone else for that matter. We can all just sit around here endlessly with our thumbs up our butts, asserting our beliefs.

I provided proof and evidence though.  I didn't make baseless assertions.

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(April 1, 2019 at 3:27 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Your OP is not an argument; it’s a description of DNA with the conclusion of an argument you never fostered built into the first sentence, lol.


Bam. Counter argument. /thread.

While complex and functional cannot be explained by natural processes alone.

Nope. Sorry. You didn’t.  You just repeat over and over, “it’s too complex. It couldn’t have come about naturally.”  That’s a claim; not evidence. If you don’t have to provide the evidence that demonstrates DNA couldn’t have evolved naturally, then I don’t have to provide any evidence for how it did. That puts our arguments on par with one another in terms of quality. Therefore, any criticisms that you leverage against my argument can be leveraged against your own. You lose. Na Na Na - Boo Boo. Stick your head in doo doo.

(April 1, 2019 at 2:14 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(April 1, 2019 at 7:04 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: Wrong!

1 In the beginning Erú Ilúvatar, the One, made the Ainur of His thought; and they made a great Music before Him. In this Music the World was begun; for Ilúvatar made visible the song of the Ainur, and they beheld it as a light in the darkness. And many among them became enamored of its beauty, and of its history which they saw beginning and unfolding as in a vision. Therefore, Ilúvatar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the secret fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World; and it was called Eä.

2 Then those of the Ainur who desired it arose and entered into the World at the beginning of Time; and it was their task to achieve it, and by their labors to fulfill the vision which they had seen. Long they labored in the regions of Eä, which are vast beyond the thoughts of Elves and Men, until in the time appointed was made Arda, the Kingdom of Earth. Then they put on the raiment of Earth and descended into it, and dwelt therein. (The Silmarillion: Valaquenta: 1-2)

2 In that time [of the Beginning of Days] the Valar brought order to the seas and the lands and the mountains, and Yavanna at last planted the seeds that she had long devised. And since, when the fires were subdued or buried beneath the primeval hills, there was need of light, Aulë at the prayer of Yavanna wrought two mighty lamps for the lighting of the Middle-earth which he had built amid the encircling seas. Then Varda filled the lamps and Manwë hallowed them, and the Valar set them upon high pillars, more lofty far than are any mountains of the later days. One lamp they raised to the north of Middle-earth, and it was named Illuin; and the other was raised in the south, and it was named Ormal; and the light of the lamps of the Valar flowed out over the Earth, so all was lit as it were in changeless day.

3 The seeds that Yavanna had sown began swiftly to sprout and to burgeon, and there arose a multitude of growing things great and small, mosses and grasses and great ferns, and trees whose tops were crowned with cloud as they were living mountains, but whose feet were wrapped in green twilight. And beasts came forth and dwelt in the grassy plains, or in the rivers and the lakes, or walked in the shadows of the woods. As yet not flower had bloomed nor any bird had sung, for those things waited still their time in the bosom of Yavanna; but wealth there was of her imagining, and nowhere more rich than in the midmost parts of the Earth, where the light of both the Lamps met and blended. And there upon the isle of Almaren in the Great Lake was the first dwelling of the Valar when all things were young, and new-made grass was yet a marvel in the eyes of the makers; and they were long content.
(The Silmarillion 1:2-3)

It is told that even as Varda ended her labours, and they were long, when first Menelmacar strode up the sky and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Elven Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar. By the starlit mere of Cuiviénen, Water of Awakening, they rose from the sleep of Ilúvatar; and while they dwelt yet silent by Cuiviénen their eyes beheld first of all things the stars of heaven. Therefore they have ever loved the starlight, and have revered Varda Elentári above all the Valar. (The Silmarillion, 3:8)

No, in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.

Why can it not be Eru?

After all it is written just as holy writ ought to be. It is self consistent. It explains the creations of everything and has a far more plausible explanation for the origin of evil. We know who it's author is and it was a single inspired man. We have access to his notes. We know who he was. We know what he wrote, when he wrote it and what he was thinking at the time.

None of this is true for your magic book. Compare your magic book to that track record. Your magic book can't even agree with itself. We know it was written by many authors. We don't know who they were. We don't know what they were thinking. We don't know if they were inspired or just plain crazy. They left no notes. We don't know if they even wrote it because there are later additions to the "gospels" that were forged. We know much of it is plagiarised.

Comparing the two texts, your magic book doesn't look too good.

ETA: Also, Eru Iluvatar's creation myth fits the known facts of the universe at large. Your magic book consistently gets it flat out wrong.

(April 1, 2019 at 5:09 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: You'd believe alot of things based on crazy shit, clearly.  The only things you won't believe, apparently, are the words of christ, or gods demonstrable ability to make you out of a monkey, lol.

No, i doubt it.  He probably just used common design which is typical in engineering.  There were explosions of life.

---

(April 1, 2019 at 5:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 1, 2019 at 5:00 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I provided proof and evidence though.  I didn't make baseless assertions.

---

While complex and functional cannot be explained by natural processes alone.

Nope. Sorry. You didn’t.  You just repeat over and over, “it’s too complex. It couldn’t have come about naturally.”  That’s a claim; not evidence. If you don’t have to provide the evidence that demonstrates DNA couldn’t have evolved naturally, then I don’t have to provide any evidence for how it did. That puts our arguments on par with one another in terms of quality. Therefore, any criticisms that you leverage against my argument can be leveraged against your own. You lose. Na Na Na - Boo Boo. Stick your head in doo doo.

No way am I sticking my head in doo doo, LOL.  You forgot to mention that I said it was also functional.

(April 1, 2019 at 2:14 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

---

(April 1, 2019 at 7:04 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: Wrong!

1 In the beginning Erú Ilúvatar, the One, made the Ainur of His thought; and they made a great Music before Him. In this Music the World was begun; for Ilúvatar made visible the song of the Ainur, and they beheld it as a light in the darkness. And many among them became enamored of its beauty, and of its history which they saw beginning and unfolding as in a vision. Therefore, Ilúvatar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the secret fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World; and it was called Eä.

2 Then those of the Ainur who desired it arose and entered into the World at the beginning of Time; and it was their task to achieve it, and by their labors to fulfill the vision which they had seen. Long they labored in the regions of Eä, which are vast beyond the thoughts of Elves and Men, until in the time appointed was made Arda, the Kingdom of Earth. Then they put on the raiment of Earth and descended into it, and dwelt therein. (The Silmarillion: Valaquenta: 1-2)

2 In that time [of the Beginning of Days] the Valar brought order to the seas and the lands and the mountains, and Yavanna at last planted the seeds that she had long devised. And since, when the fires were subdued or buried beneath the primeval hills, there was need of light, Aulë at the prayer of Yavanna wrought two mighty lamps for the lighting of the Middle-earth which he had built amid the encircling seas. Then Varda filled the lamps and Manwë hallowed them, and the Valar set them upon high pillars, more lofty far than are any mountains of the later days. One lamp they raised to the north of Middle-earth, and it was named Illuin; and the other was raised in the south, and it was named Ormal; and the light of the lamps of the Valar flowed out over the Earth, so all was lit as it were in changeless day.

3 The seeds that Yavanna had sown began swiftly to sprout and to burgeon, and there arose a multitude of growing things great and small, mosses and grasses and great ferns, and trees whose tops were crowned with cloud as they were living mountains, but whose feet were wrapped in green twilight. And beasts came forth and dwelt in the grassy plains, or in the rivers and the lakes, or walked in the shadows of the woods. As yet not flower had bloomed nor any bird had sung, for those things waited still their time in the bosom of Yavanna; but wealth there was of her imagining, and nowhere more rich than in the midmost parts of the Earth, where the light of both the Lamps met and blended. And there upon the isle of Almaren in the Great Lake was the first dwelling of the Valar when all things were young, and new-made grass was yet a marvel in the eyes of the makers; and they were long content.
(The Silmarillion 1:2-3)

It is told that even as Varda ended her labours, and they were long, when first Menelmacar strode up the sky and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Elven Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar. By the starlit mere of Cuiviénen, Water of Awakening, they rose from the sleep of Ilúvatar; and while they dwelt yet silent by Cuiviénen their eyes beheld first of all things the stars of heaven. Therefore they have ever loved the starlight, and have revered Varda Elentári above all the Valar. (The Silmarillion, 3:8)

No, in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.

---

Wrong again!

"And they shall stand in despair before the white cliffs of the world, and shall chant from their empty tomes in vain, for their words are nothing! And Erú shall prevail against His enemies and they shall be cast into the Void, for their enchantments are naught and their gods are helpless before Him." (The Silmarillion, 17:82)

Checkmate Christians!

(April 1, 2019 at 8:03 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(April 1, 2019 at 5:09 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: You'd believe alot of things based on crazy shit, clearly.  The only things you won't believe, apparently, are the words of christ, or gods demonstrable ability to make you out of a monkey, lol.

No, i doubt it.  He probably just used common design which is typical in engineering.  There were explosions of life.

---

(April 1, 2019 at 5:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Nope. Sorry. You didn’t.  You just repeat over and over, “it’s too complex. It couldn’t have come about naturally.”  That’s a claim; not evidence. If you don’t have to provide the evidence that demonstrates DNA couldn’t have evolved naturally, then I don’t have to provide any evidence for how it did. That puts our arguments on par with one another in terms of quality. Therefore, any criticisms that you leverage against my argument can be leveraged against your own. You lose. Na Na Na - Boo Boo. Stick your head in doo doo.

No way am I sticking my head in doo doo, LOL.  You forgot to mention that I said it was also functional.

I don’t care that you said it’s functional. That’s still a description of a thing; not evidence that the thing couldn’t have arisen from natural processes. If the thing was a tiny fairy that farted out microscopic unicorns, you’d still have to provide evidence for how you determined that it would be impossible for a unicorn farting fairy to come about naturally. You don’t get to just point and say, “but look! It’s a fairy that farts out tiny unicorns! Obviously that thing didn’t come about naturally!”  

As I said, if that’s the sum and total of your argument, then it’s the sum and total of mine, and you have no defeators to offer that wouldn’t simultaneously defeat your own: Look around you, CDF. Obviously, all of life on earth is the result of small changes over time accumulating into large ones. It’s just fucking obvious.

(April 1, 2019 at 6:13 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(April 1, 2019 at 2:14 pm)CDF47 Wrote: No, in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.

Why can it not be Eru?

After all it is written just as holy writ ought to be. It is self consistent. It explains the creations of everything and has a far more plausible explanation for the origin of evil. We know who it's author is and it was a single inspired man. We have access to his notes. We know who he was. We know what he wrote, when he wrote it and what he was thinking at the time.

None of this is true for your magic book. Compare your magic book to that track record. Your magic book can't even agree with itself. We know it was written by many authors. We don't know who they were. We don't know what they were thinking. We don't know if they were inspired or just plain crazy. They left no notes. We don't know if they even wrote it because there are later additions to the "gospels" that were forged. We know much of it is plagiarised.

Comparing the two texts, your magic book doesn't look too good.

ETA: Also, Eru Iluvatar's creation myth fits the known facts of the universe at large. Your magic book consistently gets it flat out wrong.

What is their creation story?

---

(April 1, 2019 at 8:05 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote:

(April 1, 2019 at 2:14 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

---

No, in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.

---

Wrong again!

"And they shall stand in despair before the white cliffs of the world, and shall chant from their empty tomes in vain, for their words are nothing! And Erú shall prevail against His enemies and they shall be cast into the Void, for their enchantments are naught and their gods are helpless before Him." (The Silmarillion, 17:82)

Checkmate Christians!

Again, what's their creation story?

---

(April 1, 2019 at 8:29 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 1, 2019 at 8:03 pm)CDF47 Wrote: No, i doubt it.  He probably just used common design which is typical in engineering.  There were explosions of life.

---

No way am I sticking my head in doo doo, LOL.  You forgot to mention that I said it was also functional.

I don’t care that you said it’s functional. That’s still a description of a thing; not evidence that the thing couldn’t have arisen from natural processes. If the thing was a tiny fairy that farted out microscopic unicorns, you’d still have to provide evidence for how you determined that it would be impossible for a unicorn farting fairy to come about naturally. You don’t get to just point and say, “but look! It’s a fairy that farts out tiny unicorns! Obviously that thing didn’t come about naturally!”  

As I said, if that’s the sum and total of your argument, then it’s the sum and total of mine, and you have no defeators to offer that wouldn’t simultaneously defeat your own: Look around you, CDF. Obviously, all of life on earth is the result of small changes over time accumulating into large ones. It’s just fucking obvious.

It's not obvious.  Where are all the failed and successful intermediaries between monkey and man?

Oh, the "no transitional fossils" lie.

(April 2, 2019 at 1:59 am)LastPoet Wrote: Oh, the "no transitional fossils" lie.

What lie?  Can you elaborate?

At work.

It means you are once again misrepresenting things CDF47.

All fossils are effectivly 'Transitional' CDF47.

Pretty sure we've walk down this explanation with you before, CDF47.

It says something either about your memory. .... or your posting habits...