(April 14, 2019 at 5:14 am)Acrobat Wrote: Jesus gave a model of what prayer out to look like, in the Lord’s Prayer. You know what’s absent in that prayer? Praying to avoid death, suffering, sick babies, missing children, etc....

Praying is not about changing Gods mind, but about the changing of ours, as evident in the Lord’s Prayer.

bold mine

All of those things christians have described to me as "evil". What does that prayer say about asking god to effect evil?

(April 14, 2019 at 5:14 am)Acrobat Wrote:

(April 14, 2019 at 4:47 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: That’s a fair point, but then why do Christians pray to god for things like sick babies, missing children, and deployed soldiers?

Jesus gave a model of what prayer out to look like, in the Lord’s Prayer. You know what’s absent in that prayer? Praying to avoid death, suffering, sick babies, missing children, etc....

Praying is not about changing Gods mind, but about the changing of ours, as evident in the Lord’s Prayer.

Is prayer ONLY about changing your mind?  Is that consistent biblically?  That is an expressed sentiment I've heard from time to time, but is that the only/primary purpose of prayer?

(April 14, 2019 at 9:38 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: Reminds me of that Muslim proverb: "Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel."

I really hope that's consensual.

(April 14, 2019 at 11:12 am)mathetes Wrote:

(April 14, 2019 at 5:14 am)Acrobat Wrote: Jesus gave a model of what prayer out to look like, in the Lord’s Prayer. You know what’s absent in that prayer? Praying to avoid death, suffering, sick babies, missing children, etc....

Praying is not about changing Gods mind, but about the changing of ours, as evident in the Lord’s Prayer.

Is prayer ONLY about changing your mind?  Is that consistent biblically?  That sounds like a euphemism I've heard from time to time, but is that the only/primary purpose of prayer?

As stated, Christ gave Christians a model of what prayer is and ought to be. So whatever primary purpose prayer serves, it’s to be derived from that model.

In that model the purpose of prayer is not to change the will of God, but rather about our ability to accept it, it’s about our minds, our hearts etc..

A prayer doesn’t disclose to God some new information about our circumstances, it’s not a confession to god of things about us he didn’t already know, that would cause him to change his mind or will.

"Whatever you pray for shall be granted."

You have not because you ask not

Quote:You know what’s absent in that prayer? Praying to avoid death, suffering, sick babies, missing children, etc....

I should think the 'deliver us from evil' bit covers that.

Boru

(April 14, 2019 at 11:36 am)Acrobat Wrote:

(April 14, 2019 at 11:12 am)mathetes Wrote: Is prayer ONLY about changing your mind?  Is that consistent biblically?  That sounds like a euphemism I've heard from time to time, but is that the only/primary purpose of prayer?

As stated, Christ gave Christians a model of what prayer is and ought to be. So whatever primary purpose prayer serves, it’s to be derived from that model.

In that model the purpose of prayer is not to change the will of God, but rather about our ability to accept it, it’s about our minds, our hearts etc..

A prayer doesn’t disclose to God some new information about our circumstances, it’s not a confession to god of things about us he didn’t already know, that would cause him to change his mind or will.

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.  Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit.

(April 14, 2019 at 5:14 am)Acrobat Wrote:

(April 14, 2019 at 4:47 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: That’s a fair point, but then why do Christians pray to god for things like sick babies, missing children, and deployed soldiers?

Jesus gave a model of what prayer out to look like, in the Lord’s Prayer. You know what’s absent in that prayer? Praying to avoid death, suffering, sick babies, missing children, etc....

Praying is not about changing Gods mind, but about the changing of ours, as evident in the Lord’s Prayer.

That's not the case.

In The Lord's Prayer the petitioner is asking God to not lead them into temptation but to deliver them from evil.  Isn't that asking God to change his mind if his mind was made up to go the temptation route?

(April 14, 2019 at 5:14 am)Acrobat Wrote: Jesus gave a model of what prayer out to look like, in the Lord’s Prayer. You know what’s absent in that prayer? Praying to avoid death, suffering, sick babies, missing children, etc....

Your god doesn't care about that shit, right?