(September 23, 2019 at 12:34 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 23, 2019 at 7:43 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Lek, how do you know your experience was caused by god and not you? How did you reach that conclusion? If person A has an actual experience of god, and person B thinks they had an actual experience of god but it was just a delusion, is there any way to tell the difference?

I think it was God, but I leave room for being wrong.  I don't analyze everything that happens to me.  I could waste my life away trying to analyze and prove everything that happens to me, but it's more enjoyable to put it in God's hands and let it flow. Living is not a method. I don't believe in God because of that one experience, but rather a daily reinforcement of my belief.

So, you admit that there is no way to distinguish between god talking to you and your brain talking to you. If that’s the case, then on what rational basis have you concluded that you’re pretty sure it was god, and not a delusion? If you, yourself, can’t rationally justify it, then you must understand why others don’t find your personal experience persuasive, yes?  Also, “daily reinforcement” of an unfalsifiable and unwarranted belief is not further evidence, it’s confirmation bias.

(September 23, 2019 at 1:41 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(September 23, 2019 at 12:34 pm)Lek Wrote: I think it was God, but I leave room for being wrong.  I don't analyze everything that happens to me.  I could waste my life away trying to analyze and prove everything that happens to me, but it's more enjoyable to put it in God's hands and let it flow. Living is not a method. I don't believe in God because of that one experience, but rather a daily reinforcement of my belief.

So, you admit that there is no way to distinguish between god talking to you and your brain talking to you. If that’s the case, then on what rational basis have you concluded that you’re pretty sure it was god, and not a delusion? If you, yourself, can’t rationally justify it, then you must understand why others don’t find your personal experience persuasive, yes?  Also, “daily reinforcement” of an unfalsifiable and unwarranted belief is not further evidence, it’s confirmation bias.

I know it's God as well as I can know anything, but as with anything you or I believe, there is always a chance we can be wrong. I don't make my decisions based on whether or not I am 100% sure that I'm correct. In that case, I would never get anywhere.

Yes, I can understand why others are not persuaded by experience. That why I stated a few posts back that we shouldn't believe in God solely based on what I or others claim, but rather to look to God ourselves for revelation because that is the way that we come to know him.

I keep a relationship with God on a daily basis and I remain a believer. You can call it confirmation bias if you like. You can use whatever criteria that you think is best to determine if God exists, but my way is the way I believe he comes to us.

(September 23, 2019 at 3:16 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 23, 2019 at 1:41 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, you admit that there is no way to distinguish between god talking to you and your brain talking to you. If that’s the case, then on what rational basis have you concluded that you’re pretty sure it was god, and not a delusion? If you, yourself, can’t rationally justify it, then you must understand why others don’t find your personal experience persuasive, yes?  Also, “daily reinforcement” of an unfalsifiable and unwarranted belief is not further evidence, it’s confirmation bias.

I know it's God as well as I can know anything, but as with anything you or I believe, there is always a chance we can be wrong.  I don't make my decisions based on whether or not I am 100% sure that I'm correct.  In that case, I would never get anywhere.

Yes, I can understand why others are not persuaded by experience.  That why I stated a few posts back that we shouldn't believe in God solely based on what I or others claim, but rather to look to God ourselves for revelation because that is the way that we come to know him.

I keep a relationship with God on a daily basis and I remain a believer.  You can call it confirmation bias if you like.  You can use whatever criteria that you think is best to determine if God exists, but my way is the way I believe he comes to us.

Who said anything about 100% certainty? You said you “think” it was god. I asked you how you determined that it was more likely god than not when you have no way to distinguish between god and your own mind.

(September 23, 2019 at 3:16 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 23, 2019 at 1:41 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, you admit that there is no way to distinguish between god talking to you and your brain talking to you. If that’s the case, then on what rational basis have you concluded that you’re pretty sure it was god, and not a delusion? If you, yourself, can’t rationally justify it, then you must understand why others don’t find your personal experience persuasive, yes?  Also, “daily reinforcement” of an unfalsifiable and unwarranted belief is not further evidence, it’s confirmation bias.

I know it's God as well as I can know anything,

You actually don't. The more we try to pin down exactly why you believe, the more vague and evasive you become.

(September 23, 2019 at 3:16 pm)Lek Wrote: but as with anything you or I believe, there is always a chance we can be wrong.

Sure. But you also believe you cannot possibly be wrong. I am sure you can see the problem with that.

(September 23, 2019 at 3:16 pm)Lek Wrote:  I don't make my decisions based on whether or not I am 100% sure that I'm correct.  In that case, I would never get anywhere.

Nobody does. But you sure give a good imitation that you indeed do so.

(September 23, 2019 at 3:16 pm)Lek Wrote: Yes, I can understand why others are not persuaded by experience.

Yet it is still your goto argument. So let us put it out there. Why exactly do you believe what you believe? Why are you avoiding telling anyone what convinces you?

(September 23, 2019 at 3:16 pm)Lek Wrote: That why I stated a few posts back that we shouldn't believe in God solely based on what I or others claim, but rather to look to God ourselves for revelation because that is the way that we come to know him.

And again you ignore that probably most atheists here did exactly that and found nothing but tumbleweeds. Likely, you will come back with some stupid variation of "never a true christian" or some such nonsense, but even you should realise how lame that is.

(September 23, 2019 at 3:16 pm)Lek Wrote: I keep a relationship with God on a daily basis and I remain a believer.  You can call it confirmation bias if you like.

I am pretty sure no god is talking to you, nor any of the other god botherers. Your bovine error is in your assumption that none of us has similarly sought. Only you. That is a false assumption.

(September 23, 2019 at 3:16 pm)Lek Wrote:  You can use whatever criteria that you think is best to determine if God exists, but my way is the way I believe he comes to us.

Why do you believe that? This is your fundamental problem. You rock up here with plenty of claims of what it is you believe, but you are cripplingly unable to provide a why, a reason. And if you are unable to provide a why, a reason then by definition, your position is unreasonable.

I've probably stated ten times in this forum that I believe because God has personally impressed it on me. How many times do I need to say it? As I searched different faiths and had discussions with people like you and people of faith, combined with daily prayer, I came to believe. I never got the evidence I needed to believe from other people or material sources.

(September 23, 2019 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: I've probably stated ten times in this forum that I  believe because God has personally impressed it on me.  How many times do I need to say it?  As I searched different faiths and had discussions with people like you and people of faith, combined with daily prayer, I came to believe. I never got the evidence I needed to believe from other people or material sources.

Yet you can’t justify how or why you believe it was god over your own mind. The devil talked to me today. He told me god is the real evil one. It’s all a farce. I can’t be certain, but for some weird feelings reason, I’m pretty sure it was him, so I’m gonna believe it and live my life accordingly. Does that seem rational to you?

(September 23, 2019 at 7:26 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(September 23, 2019 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: I've probably stated ten times in this forum that I  believe because God has personally impressed it on me.  How many times do I need to say it?  As I searched different faiths and had discussions with people like you and people of faith, combined with daily prayer, I came to believe. I never got the evidence I needed to believe from other people or material sources.

Yet you can’t justify how or why you believe it was god over your own mind. The devil talked to me today. He told me god is the real evil one. It’s all a farce. I can’t be certain, but for some weird feelings reason, I’m pretty sure it was him, so I’m gonna believe it and live my life accordingly. Does that seem rational to you?

Well, if it was just me it would seem pretty weird, but in the company of billions of sane, educated people, I would be more prone to check it out.

(September 23, 2019 at 7:31 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 23, 2019 at 7:26 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Yet you can’t justify how or why you believe it was god over your own mind. The devil talked to me today. He told me god is the real evil one. It’s all a farce. I can’t be certain, but for some weird feelings reason, I’m pretty sure it was him, so I’m gonna believe it and live my life accordingly. Does that seem rational to you?

Well,  if it was just me it would seem pretty weird,  but  in the company of billions of sane, educated people,  I  would be more prone to check it out.

Yet you and all those billions of people have “revelations” about gods that are entirely mutually exclusive. I just listened to a Christian describe a revelation by god who told him he was not omniscient, or omnipotent, so how do we figure out who’s right? Also, appealing to the number of people who believe something is a fallacy, which has been pointed out to you several times by several people.

(September 23, 2019 at 7:31 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 23, 2019 at 7:26 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Yet you can’t justify how or why you believe it was god over your own mind. The devil talked to me today. He told me god is the real evil one. It’s all a farce. I can’t be certain, but for some weird feelings reason, I’m pretty sure it was him, so I’m gonna believe it and live my life accordingly. Does that seem rational to you?

Well,  if it was just me it would seem pretty weird,  but  in the company of billions of sane, educated people,  I  would be more prone to check it out.

 


We checked it out.   They are wrong.   Now get over it.

(September 23, 2019 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: I've probably stated ten times in this forum that I  believe because God has personally impressed it on me.  How many times do I need to say it?  As I searched different faiths and had discussions with people like you and people of faith, combined with daily prayer, I came to believe. I never got the evidence I needed to believe from other people or material sources.

God "impressed" it on you. "Impressed" is one of those Special Words we used in a sense not quite like anyone else's usage when I was in the faith. I guess it evokes the "still, small voice". Oh, and not just any impressing, it was "personal".

It is phrasing like this that I think people have trouble figuring what exactly you even mean. No one can relate to something being "personally impressed on" them, so it's like you can say it a hundred times and you might as well be saying "oogah-boogah".

Translation: you believe in god because you claim / believe that he gave you a private direct revelation of himself. You did not require any evidence, other than a personal subjective experience that you describe as divine revelation.

The problem for any skeptic is that you can't explain how anyone would be able to tell such a revelation from things like wishful thinking, confirmation bias, daydreaming or just being deluded. That, I think, is why Christians have their Special Words, to make it seem to themselves and maybe to others that this isn't the same thing as the more mundane and less flattering explanations.

But it is.