(October 21, 2019 at 11:02 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(October 21, 2019 at 10:40 am)Chad32 Wrote: He'd pretty much need to remove any memory of mine having to do with people I liked who didn't get into heaven, and any memory I had of the parts in the bible that showed god being horrible. Memories would have to be affected, and if memories are a part of who I am, then it would effect part of me. I guess what it comes down to is, I don't trust this concept of heaven, if it depends on the whims of an individual I don't like.

We know our personage and memories are stored in the brain, because you can alter a person's brain, and they can become a new person, with different memories.

"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind" (ESV, Isaiah 65:17).

I personally don't know how I feel about the topic. In theory, it makes sense. The whole point of salvation is to pry away sin from the sinner. Given that sin is treated as part of our identity, it follows that removing the memory of it is an important step in the process. The Bible definitely suggests a need of transforming the sinner to a saint. I have no idea what persists of the person once that change occurs. That's an issue that exists in many places. To what extend is someone with depression still the same person after taking antidepressants? We like to believe they've changed, but are still the same person.

So new person, same body. Or maybe new body. Not even sure what the point is of living on this planet if they're just going to recreate me when I'm gone. My life on earth will have no effect on my new life in heaven. Whatever character growth and overcome struggles I experienced on earth, it will all be forgotten, and I'll basically have to relearn everything.

"You" are the sum of your physical being, your genetics - the effects of time and environment on your body - and your mind - your intellect, education and experience.

Spooky, undefined and unquantifiable elements such as " soul" - are only a factor in the proponent's imagination.

It is fitting that that imaginary bit is the part that ends up in the imaginary eternal place.

(October 21, 2019 at 4:58 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: "You" are the sum of your physical being, your genetics - the effects of time and environment on your body - and your mind - your intellect, education and experience.

Spooky, undefined and unquantifiable elements such as " soul" - are only a factor in the proponent's imagination.

It is fitting that that imaginary bit is the part that ends up in the imaginary eternal place.

It seems circular to talk about summing up "your" mind and "your" body in order to define who "you" are.

(October 21, 2019 at 5:40 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(October 21, 2019 at 4:58 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: "You" are the sum of your physical being, your genetics - the effects of time and environment on your body - and your mind - your intellect, education and experience.

Spooky, undefined and unquantifiable elements such as " soul" - are only a factor in the proponent's imagination.

It is fitting that that imaginary bit is the part that ends up in the imaginary eternal place.

It seems circular to talk about summing up "your" mind and "your" body in order to define who "you" are.

Whatta ya expect?

You are gonna be somebody else?

(October 21, 2019 at 6:14 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Whatta ya expect?

You are gonna be somebody else?

I expect a better demarcation of those boundaries. Transplant a kidney and you now have someone else's parts playing a functional role as part of your body; its ambiguous whether that is their kidney or your kidney, since your proposal was circular. I have to sum up my parts to know who I am, and I need to know who I am to identify my parts.

Dementia is a horrible process to watch. My dad had lewy-body dementia before he died and my mother is currently suffering from a dementia process related to her diabetes. She is a very different person now; she cries at almost nothing and lashes out when you try to reason with her. My brother is in total denial about her condition and is her caretaker at the moment. He has summarily ruined every relationship in his life but still won't just leave and let professionals take care of her. It eats at me daily.

(October 21, 2019 at 9:05 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Dementia is a horrible process to watch. My dad had lewy-body dementia before he died and my mother is currently suffering from a dementia process related to her diabetes. She is a very different person now; she cries at almost nothing and lashes out when you try to reason with her. My brother is in total denial about her condition and is her caretaker at the moment. He has summarily ruined every relationship in his life but still won't just leave and let professionals take care of her. It eats at me daily.

Have you looked for support groups near you? Sharing coping tips is important at times.

Family members are more often much better than 'the professionals'.
When someone has dementia it can be better for them to see a familiar face.
Apart from that, I know no details and I'm sure you have your reasons for feeling that way.

(October 22, 2019 at 7:05 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(October 21, 2019 at 9:05 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Dementia is a horrible process to watch. My dad had lewy-body dementia before he died and my mother is currently suffering from a dementia process related to her diabetes. She is a very different person now; she cries at almost nothing and lashes out when you try to reason with her. My brother is in total denial about her condition and is her caretaker at the moment. He has summarily ruined every relationship in his life but still won't just leave and let professionals take care of her. It eats at me daily.

Have you looked for support groups near you? Sharing coping tips is important at times.

I have not. I get a lot of support from my wife and my cousin who will go pick my mother up and bring her to visit me.

Little Lunch,

The problem with a family member being a caregiver is that they become a secondary patient because it takes a metal toll on that person much greater than on professional caregivers. While it is difficult for anyone to take care of a dementia patient it is worse when you are related to them. That is what I've read anyway and I can attest to the difficulty of watching a person you love deteriorate.

(October 22, 2019 at 7:09 am)Little lunch Wrote: Family members are more often much better than 'the professionals'.
When someone has dementia it can be better for them to see a familiar face.
Apart from that, I know no details and I'm sure you have your reasons for feeling that way.

If you were responding to me may I say that I'm meant support groups of people in similar situations, not homecare professionals or the like. They have their own coping mechanisms. Most ordinary people enter the situation largely clueless. I know I did.