(November 29, 2019 at 5:50 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: I don't claim Islam being better at certain aspects makes it true, I merely say that most atheists in the West left their faith for reasons that are specific to their former religion, and they should thus think hard about the remaining major religions.

On what do you base the claim that 'most atheists in the West left their faith for reasons that are specific to their former religion'? The reasons I left my former religion (Pentecostal Protestant Christianity) left me still believing in some sort of God, the reasons I stopped believing in God (a couple of decades later) would apply to any religion that posits any kind of supernatural deity, and I find that to be common among atheists in my little part of the USA. Assuming Christianity as an 'initial religion', leaving it makes you 'not-a-Christian', not necessarily an atheist. I have reasons for not believing Christianity AND additional reasons for not believing in God.

For the record, I've read the Koran, cover-to-cover, plus the hadiths. I didn't find it particularly impressive or convincing, but I think jettisoning the hadiths in their entirety would be a good idea. They're particularly problematic, not part of the Koran, and explicitly not infallible. If you're unwilling to do that, have you considered Shia? They manage to avoid the problem of Mohammed being a pedophile by estimating Aisha's age considerably higher, maybe even 21, before he consummated their marriage. Once upon a time, Aisha being very young was considered a plus by the Sunni, since it made her transmission of the Koran seem more miraculous, or at least prodigious. Now it just seems creepy.

Welcome to the forum, btw.

Im wasting my time with this misogynist little fuck, just like the other one.

(December 1, 2019 at 7:18 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: How's the conversions coming along?

I think he converted part of my toe this morning.






No wait. Sorry, false alarm. I just stubbed it getting out of the shower.

(December 2, 2019 at 12:20 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: On what do you base the claim that 'most atheists in the West left their faith for reasons that are specific to their former religion'? The reasons I left my former religion (Pentecostal Protestant Christianity) left me still believing in some sort of God, the reasons I stopped believing in God (a couple of decades later) would apply to any religion that posits any kind of supernatural deity, and I find that to be common among atheists in my little part of the USA. Assuming Christianity as an 'initial religion', leaving it makes you 'not-a-Christian', not necessarily an atheist. I have reasons for not believing Christianity AND additional reasons for not believing in God.

Can you elaborate on your reasons for not believing in God? 

(December 2, 2019 at 12:20 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: For the record, I've read the Koran, cover-to-cover, plus the hadiths. I didn't find it particularly impressive or convincing

I assume you read a translation and not the original Arabic text. It's the latter that is impressive and miraculous judging by the way it came into being. Someone who doesn't understand Arabic simply needs to read the experts' comments on the original text to make an impartial judgment.

(December 2, 2019 at 12:20 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: but I think jettisoning the hadiths in their entirety would be a good idea. They're particularly problematic, not part of the Koran, and explicitly not infallible. If you're unwilling to do that, have you considered Shia? They manage to avoid the problem of Mohammed being a pedophile by estimating Aisha's age considerably higher, maybe even 21, before he consummated their marriage. Once upon a time, Aisha being very young was considered a plus by the Sunni, since it made her transmission of the Koran seem more miraculous, or at least prodigious. Now it just seems creepy.

They're not problematic at all.

A minimum age for marriage changed greatly throughout history, it makes absolutely no sense for you or for anyone to judge a marriage that took place 14 centuries ago. It's actually a huge mistake even modern professional historians warn of. (called anachronism, if I can recall correctly)

(December 2, 2019 at 3:43 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: A minimum age for marriage changed greatly throughout history, it makes absolutely no sense for you or for anyone to judge a marriage that took place 14 centuries ago. It's actually a huge mistake even modern professional historians warn of. (called anachronism, if I can recall correctly)

Misogyny and moral relativism. What an unsurprising combo.

Even IF the koran is as wonderful as you claim, looking at the way its teachings have been implemented and spread, including in modern times, I’ll give it a miss.

Simply put, I’d rather “embrace” a speeding bus.

(December 2, 2019 at 8:06 am)Klorophyll Wrote:

(December 1, 2019 at 10:36 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: If you were actually giving religions balanced treatment this line of questioning would lead you to wonder why God Allmighty is mucking about with mortal Prophets to deliver His Message.

Considering how many religious people are there today thanks to these mortal Prophets, including two damn billion people because of the Islamic prophet, God's way isn't as hidden as you blatantly claim here is it ?

I didn't say "hidden" I said "Failed". Revealing your message to a single mortal every few centuries is such a dismal markettng plan that no human has ever been stoopid enough to try it and that's saying a lot. Any "Deity" that has to rely on "Prophets" is a dismal failure and incompetent beyond all mortal understanding.

Quote:

(December 1, 2019 at 10:36 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Given the wars that this has led to within and between religions this is clearly a Failed System.

People went to much more devastating wars even with the absence of religious reasons.

So God knew Communism would happen and figured the Crusades and raging anti-semitism couldn't be all that bad? Allah just called and asked you to stop defending him before you tarnish His reputation any more.

Quote:

(December 1, 2019 at 10:36 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: As you have dismissed Christianity and Judaism, we may now dismiss Islam for the patent nonsense that it is.

I gave good reasons that you didn't refute to dimiss each. It's your turn to give a good reason to dismiss Islam, aside from empty claims.

The god that you describe is a petty imbecile, no different from any of the other deities that humans have invented.

(December 2, 2019 at 4:08 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Misogyny and moral relativism. What an unsurprising combo.

Atheists are like the last people to criticize moral relativism, just preventing you from unnecessary bloodshed.   

(December 2, 2019 at 4:16 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Even IF the koran is as wonderful as you claim, looking at the way its teachings have been implemented and spread, including in modern times, I’ll give it a miss.

Just to give an example, it was implemented in a wonderful way in the Iberian Peninsula for like more than 800 years.

I'm starting to think that this forum is the target of relapsing meth addicts in some bizarre absolution ritual.