(December 10, 2019 at 8:02 pm)maxolla Wrote:

(December 10, 2019 at 5:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Klorophyll,

So, do you have any evidence for god, or...?

Do you have any evidence for Abraham Lincoln?  How can you be certain of anything at all?

Aside the mountains of evidence we have he existed .

(December 10, 2019 at 8:02 pm)maxolla Wrote:

(December 10, 2019 at 5:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Klorophyll,

So, do you have any evidence for god, or...?

Do you have any evidence for Abraham Lincoln?  How can you be certain of anything at all?

Yes, we have overwhelming evidence for Lincoln and many other historical figures.

Gods, not so much.

(December 10, 2019 at 8:02 pm)maxolla Wrote:

(December 10, 2019 at 5:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Klorophyll,

So, do you have any evidence for god, or...?

Do you have any evidence for Abraham Lincoln?  How can you be certain of anything at all?

I know I'm certain you're heading into the great boiling if you don't repent.

(December 10, 2019 at 8:41 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(December 10, 2019 at 8:02 pm)maxolla Wrote: Do you have any evidence for Abraham Lincoln?  How can you be certain of anything at all?

Yes, we have overwhelming evidence for Lincoln and many other historical figures.

Gods, not so much.

What evidence do you have that’s overwhelming?  Is it partly to do with Lincoln being recent history?  Are you certain that Plato existed as well?

---

(December 10, 2019 at 8:21 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(December 10, 2019 at 8:02 pm)maxolla Wrote: Do you have any evidence for Abraham Lincoln?  How can you be certain of anything at all?

Aside the mountains of evidence we have he existed .

So evidence is the fact that his statue exists as well as his face is carved into a mountain side?  What about Plato?  Do you have certainty that he existed?

---

(December 10, 2019 at 8:04 pm)EgoDeath Wrote:

(December 10, 2019 at 7:28 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: How droll. Klorophyl is merely promoting yet another version of the imaginary sky fairy. No evidence, no demonstrable existence, all assertion. He kind of sounds like a kid that recently caught the disease of religion.

The particular religion matters not a jot. They all come across with the enthusiasm of youth and new found belief in their chosen deity and a burning urge to convince everyone else that they are right.  .

And this is sort of what I've been hoping to hash out with him... Eventually trying to get him to realize that his arguments are the same as any other theists, with little to no deviation outside of replacing "Jesus" with "Mohammed." It's no surprise how similar the arguments are; I mean, how much difference is there between  Islam, Judaism and Christianity, when you strip away the superfluous parts? I mean, certainly, the traditions, culture and positions in the world have become quite different in 2019, but are they really that different at the core? I'd argue that they are not.

Especially when you're arguing for a personal, Abrahamic god... how much different can your argument get? It's really unfortunate to see people quote nonsense like "the prime mover" and "the teleological argument," which are these sort of convoluted, overly complex ways that so-called "sophisticated theologians" use to say "No one created god" and "god designed things." It's bizarre.

---

(December 10, 2019 at 8:02 pm)maxolla Wrote: Do you have any evidence for Abraham Lincoln?  How can you be certain of anything at all?

Oh wow.

The difference is there are mounds and mounds of evidence to account for the existence of Lincoln. It would be interesting though, if there was one book that talked about the existence of Lincoln, and that's all we had in the whole wide world to tell us that Lincoln was real, and when asked about how we know Lincoln was real, we replied, "Because the book tells us so!" And if asked why we trust the book, "Because Lincoln said we should!"

Unfortunately, that's not quite how it works with most historical figures, especially ones from such recent (relatively) times.

I think you bring up a relevant argument for sure.  “the book” must refer to the Christian bible.  That isn’t really a book and has been mischaracterized as a book, but is necessarily a collection of manuscripts, letters, and historical data.  The fact that, for the most part, the data found in “the book” is corroborated with other  writings gives credence to it I think.  I’m not saying the reasonable people should take the writings on faith alone but there is a record in biblical scripture that is corroborated outside itself.

(December 10, 2019 at 8:02 pm)maxolla Wrote:

(December 10, 2019 at 5:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Klorophyll,

So, do you have any evidence for god, or...?

Do you have any evidence for Abraham Lincoln?  How can you be certain of anything at all?

You’re conflating justified, reasonable belief with absolute certainty. I never said anything about being absolutely certain.

Quote:What evidence do you have that’s overwhelming? 

Are you serious ?

Quote:Is it partly to do with Lincoln being recent history?  

Nope because of the evidence 

Quote:Are you certain that Plato existed as well?

The evidence of plato is still stronger then your god .Even if his existence is questionable 


What trying here is the argument from Spartacus  it's fallacious in the extreme .

---

Quote:That isn’t really a book and has been mischaracterized as a book, but is necessarily a collection of manuscripts, letters, and historical data.

It's not remotely historical 


 

Quote: The fact that, for the most part, the data found in “the book” is corroborated with other  writings gives credence to it I think. 

There is no other writing that corroborates it there is lots of apologetic and bad scholarship that tries 

Quote: I’m not saying the reasonable people should take the writings on faith alone but there is a record in biblical scripture that is corroborated outside itself.

No it is not

So, I ask for evidence of god, and we’re talking about Abe Lincoln. If, “well, what about Abraham Lincoln?!” is the best you’ve got, your proposition is in serious trouble.

(December 11, 2019 at 12:03 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(December 10, 2019 at 8:02 pm)maxolla Wrote: Do you have any evidence for Abraham Lincoln?  How can you be certain of anything at all?

You’re conflating justified, reasonable belief with absolute certainty. I never said anything about being absolutely certain.

I guess I haven’t considered reasonable belief as a category apart from certainty.  I think the point is that belief is chosen and not necessarily based on complete evidence.

Quote:I guess I haven’t considered reasonable belief as a category apart from certainty.  I think the point is that belief is chosen and not necessarily based on complete evidence.

Complete no proportional to belief yes

I’m smelling the sweet sense of desperation from the new one.