(December 18, 2019 at 4:31 pm)maxolla Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 4:08 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Ok, so God was good enough to get the original work transferred into several people's minds and then written so that it is the inerrant work. A master work of scripture. But, that is where His power ends? He can't flex enough power to make sure the translators and councils keep the work whole? So if His power fails there, why wouldn't you just take it back a step further and realize that God has not produced a viable book that encompasses what it wants?

Thats not exactly how I interpret what I have read and what I know about scripture.  Genesis is generally accepted to be written by Moses.  It is also excepted that it was written in his own words.  

No it fucking is not accepted that the genesis account was written by Moses in his own words. Moses cannot be demonstrated to have existed in the first place.

If you are going to argue any position at least do it honestly.

Quote:Genesis is generally accepted to be written by Moses.  It is also excepted that it was written in his own words.  

In what alternate universe

Godzilla is the one and true God anyways

(December 18, 2019 at 6:42 pm)NightHawk Wrote: Godzilla is the one and true God anyways

Mothra!

(December 18, 2019 at 6:15 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 4:31 pm)maxolla Wrote: I don’t see anywhere that says differently.  If you have read and are quite familiar, then maybe you can help me with my misunderstanding, if in fact I have one, regarding scripture on this.  Where things get interesting is in the eschatology found in revelation but there is much debate on the ideas found there and the meaning of language referring to “lake of fire” etc.

Sheol is not translated as life so when you use the word afterlife when referring to sheol it is not according to the translation of the word.  

The idea that “believers” go directly to heaven and “unbelievers” go directly to hell is not supported in scripture.  However, there is evidence of the destruction of Satan and the wicked in scripture.  I’m not providing details (scriptural reference), but I could.

I never said you had a misunderstanding. I was just trying to clarify your position.

Quote:Thats not exactly how I interpret what I have read and what I know about scripture. Genesis is generally accepted to be written by Moses. It is also excepted that it was written in his own words. The bible is not infallible in that it has discrepancies within it because of how it was written (human writing). There are places within the Bible where it references God saying “write this down” and then what follows is generally accepted as the words of God. Since Moses was not alive during the story of creation it is believed that the story of creation was handed down through the generations starting with Adam and Eve and so on. The idea of a man named Abraham is also found in the belief and writings of the Muslim faith. The fact that the story of creation is found in many different ancient writings of varied cultures helps validate the story of Babel and the dispersion.

So, if you interpret the Bible one way, and other theists interpret it another (over 30K Christian sects, and counting...), how do you know yours is the correct interpretation, and others that interpreted differently, got it wrong?

It the Bible is not infallible, then how do you know any of it is correct? How do you know you understand the correct parts, and other misunderstand them?

In short. We as human beings see the world in different ways. We interpret what we perceive in varied ways and even our language is imperfect in totally accurate communication. I would say that Biblical text just as any writing can be interpreted along many different lines of thought. If we both read the same novel you may come up with a very different interpretation of the text than I would based on your experience and the fact that all human being are unique from one another.

I except that I am wrong and have misunderstandings. That’s why I am interested in learning from other peoples perspectives when they will allow understanding. I would not say that I am typical in theist circles. It's prefer to understand than be understood. This is why I don’t particularly care whether or not my conclusions are perceived as right I would prefer to be right.

Lastly, Ipse dixit doesn’t cut it. Just because most of the Christian world believes in hell, I have yet to have someone support is properly with scriptural proof.

You would say the same to me regarding the existence of God. However, I’m not trying to prove his existence to you. I’m here to know more about your why.

(December 18, 2019 at 7:16 pm)maxolla Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 6:15 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: I never said you had a misunderstanding. I was just trying to clarify your position.


So, if you interpret the Bible one way, and other theists interpret it another (over 30K Christian sects, and counting...), how do you know yours is the correct interpretation, and others that interpreted differently, got it wrong?

It the Bible is not infallible, then how do you know any of it is correct? How do you know you understand the correct parts, and other misunderstand them?

In short.  We as human beings see the world in different ways.  We interpret what we perceive in varied ways and even our language is imperfect in totally accurate communication.  I would say that Biblical text just as any writing can be interpreted along many different lines of thought.  If we both read the same novel you may come up with a very different interpretation of the text than I would based on your experience and the fact that all human being are unique from one another.


I except that I am wrong and have misunderstandings.  That’s why I am interested in learning from other peoples perspectives when they will allow understanding.  I would not say that I am typical in theist circles.  It's prefer to understand than be understood.  This is why I don’t particularly care whether or not my conclusions are perceived as right I would prefer to be right.

Lastly, Ipse dixit doesn’t cut it.  Just because most of the Christian world believes in hell, I have yet to have someone support is properly with scriptural proof.

You would say the same to me regarding the existence of God.  However, I’m not trying to prove his existence to you.  I’m here to know more about your why.

You came here with the questions as to why people here are atheists. However at the same time you seem more interested in debate over the existence of God. It's fine if you want to have something to believe in, it really is. I take no issue with it. But it seems the common consensus here is that people who do not believe in God do not believe in God do not see enough evidence to support that claim. I am not sure what more you want or what you think you are accomplishing my continuing to debate. If you really were here to find out why people are atheist you would not bother debating his existence.

When I was getting my undergrad I took a Sociology of Religion course. Our mid term project was to basically learn about a new religion we were not familiar with. I chose Judaism. I interviewed a Rabbi and a few members. The goal was to find out more about their beliefs and how they practice those beliefs as well as what they mean to them. Never once did I think to challenge those beliefs. Why? Because that was not my goal. My goal was to understand their beliefs better.

(December 18, 2019 at 6:31 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 4:31 pm)maxolla Wrote: Thats not exactly how I interpret what I have read and what I know about scripture.  Genesis is generally accepted to be written by Moses.  It is also excepted that it was written in his own words.  

No it fucking is not accepted that the genesis account was written by Moses in his own words. Moses cannot be demonstrated to have existed in the first place.

If you are going to argue any position at least do it honestly.

Ipuwer Papyrus would seem to disagree. https://beginningandend.com/did-the-exod...he-exodus/

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(December 18, 2019 at 7:23 pm)NightHawk Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 7:16 pm)maxolla Wrote: In short.  We as human beings see the world in different ways.  We interpret what we perceive in varied ways and even our language is imperfect in totally accurate communication.  I would say that Biblical text just as any writing can be interpreted along many different lines of thought.  If we both read the same novel you may come up with a very different interpretation of the text than I would based on your experience and the fact that all human being are unique from one another.

I except that I am wrong and have misunderstandings.  That’s why I am interested in learning from other peoples perspectives when they will allow understanding.  I would not say that I am typical in theist circles.  It's prefer to understand than be understood.  This is why I don’t particularly care whether or not my conclusions are perceived as right I would prefer to be right.

Lastly, Ipse dixit doesn’t cut it.  Just because most of the Christian world believes in hell, I have yet to have someone support is properly with scriptural proof.

You would say the same to me regarding the existence of God.  However, I’m not trying to prove his existence to you.  I’m here to know more about your why.

You came here with the questions as to why people here are atheists. However at the same time you seem more interested in debate over the existence of God. It's fine if you want to have something to believe in, it really is. I take no issue with it. But it seems the common consensus here is that people who do not believe in God do not believe in God do not see enough evidence to support that claim. I am not sure what more you want or what you think you are accomplishing my continuing to debate.

No debate. I was asked a question. I answered it the best way I knew how.

[url=https://beginningandend.com/did-the-exodus-really-happen-historical-evidence-of-the-exodus/][/url]

Quote:https://beginningandend.com/did-the-exod...he-exodus/

Fringe fundamentalist nonsense.

(December 18, 2019 at 6:42 pm)NightHawk Wrote: Godzilla is the one and true God anyways

(December 18, 2019 at 7:46 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(December 18, 2019 at 6:42 pm)NightHawk Wrote: Godzilla is the one and true God anyways

That is probably the coolest thing ever!!!!