(January 2, 2020 at 11:02 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(January 2, 2020 at 5:14 pm)Lek Wrote: When you try to determine the cause for anything is one of your considerations that it was caused by supernatural means?

I like to think I keep an open mind. But, the problem with considering the supernatural as a cause, is that no one can tell me what a supernatural thing actually is, and why it is disqualified from the category of ‘natural’. As far as I can tell, the best description of the supernatural we currently have is, “some event that occurred in the natural world that we don’t have an explanation for yet.” How am I supposed to evaluate whether it’s likely or not that the cause of some phenomenon was supernatural when I don’t even know what it is, or what evidence of it would look like? If the only evidence for a supernatural cause is the lack of a natural explanation...well...that’s no evidence at all. It’s just an argument from ignorance fallacy. Lek, if you can’t test for the supernatural, why would you even consider it a possibility?

Would you agree that if there is a supreme supernatural being, who acts according to whatever laws it wishes, that it could communicate knowledge of itself directly to a human being? Also, that it could do this using a method that is not understandable to us? If this is possible, it could spread to billions and billions of people in all times and places. Since this knowledge cannot be discovered strictly by human means, those who received this knowledge would accept it with certainty, while those who haven't would be highly skeptical. This would explain why so many believe with certainty while others reject it.

Is the only true knowledge we can obtain that which is obtained through observable natural means or can there be other ways to obtain true knowledge? If not, then why?

Once again fantfully making up special magic knowledge is indistinguishable from nothing at all and giving a being magic superhero powers isn't an argument .And again simply saying it's possible doesn't mean we have any good reason to believe it has occured .

Lek:
Since this knowledge cannot be discovered strictly by human means, those who received this knowledge would accept it with certainty

Why is it that every religitard that traipses through these doors has the same stale, laughable argument that showcases their mental vacancy?

The knowledge of the rainbow at one point in time could not be discovered strictly by human means, you are aware of this, correct?

The fantasy of magic does not bridge the gaps of false impressions and misinterpretations.

(January 3, 2020 at 12:33 am)SUNGULA Wrote: Once again fantfully making up special magic knowledge is indistinguishable from nothing at all and giving a being magic superhero powers isn't an argument .And again simply saying it's possible doesn't mean we have any good reason to believe it has occured .

I have always struggled with why the overwhelming majority of people throughout the world, throughout human history have believed in God. This has been true in ancient times as well as modern times. Even as we come to know that the earth isn't the center of the universe, etc, we still believe in God. Even highly educated people believe in God.

You all say it's because we are delusional or stupid or whatever. If this is true, then why do so many intelligent, sane people believe in God? If God has revealed himself to me, why should I take your word that he doesn't exist?

God is not bound by our worldly limits, but reveals himself in whatever manner he wishes. The physical universe is only a portion of the entire existence. Why is the only truth we can have that which you can explain or grasp?

You're talking about knowledge that can't be discovered strictly by human means...well, you're a human, with strictly human means. Your own observations -are- natural means. This is what I was touching on earlier. You say that you listen to something. I doubt it, even decoded from churchspeak I doubt it. However, if so..I have a meatsack telling me it hears things with it's meatparts.

Where's the super in this natural?

Out of curiosity, what has this supernatural™ being communicated to you? Hopefully none of the above...or you might want to shop for a smarter god. In any case, the answer to your question is blisteringly obvious. We -all- hear things that are a part of ourselves. If you insist on pretending that god "revealed" himself to you, like a complete fucking loon..then fine. You're a loon. Gratz, you convinced me. A loon is asking me why he should take my word for it that his lunacy isn't real.

The thing is, I think it is. I can easily see why a crazy person would believe the delusions their own malfunctioning brain is treating them to. IDK what that has to do with gods, or the history of belief in human beings..because even believing humans don't make claims like that with any regularity whatsoever, and none of you believe each other on the rare event that some nutter climbs up on a box and starts babbling about what god told him.

(January 3, 2020 at 12:58 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: You're talking about knowledge that can't be discovered strictly by human means...well, you're a human, with strictly human means. Your own observations -are- natural means. This is what I was touching on earlier. You say that you listen to something. I doubt it, even decoded from churchspeak I doubt it. However, if so..I have a meatsack telling me it hears things with it's meatparts.

Where's the super in this natural?

Out of curiosity, what has this supernatural™ being communicated to you? Hopefully none of the above...or you might want to shop for a smarter god.

Did you read the post I made immediately before this one? I think it answers your questions.

Lek: 
why do so many intelligent, sane people believe in God? 

For the same reason so many different cultures have some sort of dumpling.
Human beings tend to think alike.

(January 3, 2020 at 12:58 am)Lek Wrote:

(January 3, 2020 at 12:33 am)SUNGULA Wrote: Once again fantfully making up special magic knowledge is indistinguishable from nothing at all and giving a being magic superhero powers isn't an argument .And again simply saying it's possible doesn't mean we have any good reason to believe it has occured .

I have always struggled with why the overwhelming majority of people throughout the world, throughout human history have believed in God. This has been true in ancient times as well as modern times.  Even as we come to know that the earth isn't the center of the universe, etc, we still believe in God.  Even highly educated people believe in God.

You all say it's because we are delusional or stupid or whatever.  If this is true, then why do so many intelligent, sane people believe in God?  If God has revealed himself to me, why should I take your word that he doesn't exist?

God is not bound by our worldly limits, but reveals himself in whatever manner he wishes.  The physical universe is only a portion of the entire existence.  Why is the only truth we can have that which you can explain or grasp?

The reason the majority believe in something is aside he point .Nor do they need to be delusional or stupid to believe falsely .Intelligent does not mean not wrong .This is just more storytelling.

Guy says he's got god on the batphone. As unhinged as it is, it's easily the most understandable and compelling reason for any belief. Lek, like so many other believers, feels personally slighted by anyone's full throated atheism, lol. It makes it hard for him to believe, and as he sees it he must be delusional, or stupid, or -insert some negative thing here-.

But no..not at all. He doesn't have to be any of those things. It's not a requirement of christianity. He's choosing to describe himself in that way on account of a doomed argument he's raised and watch burn over and over and over on this boards. Positively insisting on it.

You're not giving any thought out answers to my questions or ideas. The questions I'm asking and the points I'm making are not repetitions of the "same old" things. You just don't want to take the time to thoughtfully respond to them.

I have had my beliefs challenged to the core in this forum over the years. I'm thankful for it because I wanted to find out if my beliefs could stand up to the test. I've had to drop some because they didn't, but in the process many have remained and I've come upon some new ones as well. One thing for sure is that my beliefs are not based on whether or not you agree or affirm them.