I think the point you're trying to make is that the idea that men can be defined as "real" and "not real," even thought every male ever born was real, is dumb. I agree.

I'm Arkansan and over 50 and don't measure up to my dad's generation any better than he measured up to his.  All the same:

When I see a guy, not in a locker room or by a pool, wearing flip flops.  Real men stay prepared for situations requiring proper footwear, like running or moon-walking.

When a guy won't go hiking because of snakes and bugs.  Real men prefer such company over people.

A guy who thinks a distributor cap is what Chance wears.  Real men know how to pretend to know engines.

It doesn't bother me to have an imprint of what a real man is.  I do okay.

(January 21, 2020 at 1:28 pm)Shell B Wrote: I think the point you're trying to make is that the idea that men can be defined as "real" and "not real," even thought every male ever born was real, is dumb. I agree.

Real and macho are not synonyms.

A man who loves men, wears a dress and mascera and is frightened by mice is still a man.


Anyone who tells you otherwise is a moron.

Doubly so when they claim their invisible friend is real.

It might not bother you, but what about the men who aren't "real" by your standards? Maybe it bothers them to be thought of as "other." My husband doesn't know shit about engines, but can provide better than any mechanic. My father knows his way around an engine like no one else I know, but he wears flip flops in the summer, so did my ex-husband who was a mortar man in the U.S. Army. My feet are like leather. I've never needed proper footwear for anything. I can run barefooted on just about any surface, though it would suck in the woods. My point is, none of this stuff matters at all when it comes to whether a person is a man or not.

(January 21, 2020 at 3:32 pm)Shell B Wrote: It might not bother you, but what about the men who aren't "real" by your standards? Maybe it bothers them to be thought of as "other." My husband doesn't know shit about engines, but can provide better than any mechanic. My father knows his way around an engine like no one else I know, but he wears flip flops in the summer, so did my ex-husband who was a mortar man in the U.S. Army. My feet are like leather. I've never needed proper footwear for anything. I can run barefooted on just about any surface, though it would suck in the woods. My point is, none of this stuff matters at all when it comes to whether a person is a man or not.

Hopefully, you noticed some sarcasm and self-deprecating humor in the post.  I don't ultimately conclude they are "other."  Some of them might even be able to kick my ass.  I was pointing out how a person can have that imprint, be aware of it and get along fine.  

If that bothers someone, that's on them.

Real men make their own beef jerky!

Real men don't cheat on their wives whilst simultaneously shagging all finery on the block.

Real men agree with OLB on everything.

maybe we should rephrase the "real" portion to what makes a quality man, or generally a quality person?