(January 27, 2020 at 12:43 pm)Shell B Wrote: Oh, god. I'm one of them. 

I once stopped to help a bleeding guy by the side of the road. One of his shoes was in the middle of the street. He had no idea how he got there. People were just driving by him. Really busy road. I still brag about how much better I am than them to this day. (Read: I rant about how fucking douchey it is to drive by a bleeding man missing a shoe.) I still have no idea how he got there. We called for help and even followed up with his girlfriend who also still had no idea later that night.

No lol there's nothing wrong with stopping to help someone in need. That's awesome. Where you lose me is when you actually you think you're better than other people for doing so, or compare yourself to others because of what you did, or brag to other people about what you did, or lambast others for not doing what you did.

If you're gonna' do something nice or "heroic," do it because you want to do it and potentially because it makes you feel good to do so. Even if you get some selfish sense of self-satisfaction on it, fine. Good for you. But keep your self-righteous ego-stroke to yourself. Don't do it because you want to feel superior to others. If you're going to cut your elderly neighbors lawn because it's incredibly difficult for her to do it, and she doesn't have any young family members willing or able to help out, then do that, and feel good about it because you did a good thing! But don't then go on to remind everyone about how you help your elderly neighbor. Surely, you must be more interesting than to brag about shit like that. Aren't you a writer?

Besides, what is way more rewarding than bragging to everyone about helping your elderly neighbor, is possibly getting to know her and maybe hearing some cool stories about when and where she grew up and what she thinks about the world today. Friendships with elderly people can be super rewarding.

Anyway, I hope you're joking about the second half.

Anyway, if you're being serious about bragging about crap like that, here's some people you might get along with, sadly...

methinks your sarcasm meter needs some recalibration.

i was very much hoping , and sure that shellby was joking but unfortunately, there's plenty of people who truly, truly think like that. I know plenty of them. the god complex is real among a lot of LEOs, fire fighters, EMTs and so on. that attitude is very real thing

(January 27, 2020 at 12:53 pm)tackattack Wrote: "doing what you signed up to do" isn't a qualification for heroism.

And I disagree with that. There are plenty of cowards in fox holes, not that I blame them.

Quote:I signed up to be in the military. That doesn't make me heroic, because it BECOMES my status quo when it because my job to do heroic things.

I disagree there. It's not a soldier's job to do heroic things. Most of you never do anything really worthy of mention, no offense. Only very rarely are you called to heroism, though it is more often than the rest of us. Still, in those moments, some are heroic, others are not. I'd be surprised if you did anything qualifying as heroism, whether you signed up to or not. I really mean no offense. It's just that you could have been stationed in Germany for all I know.

I personally think a firefighter is more called to heroism than a soldier, but I am biased. I was married to a soldier who was a right asshole. I doubt he ever did anything heroic, unless it involved him getting to be an aggressive tough guy.

(January 27, 2020 at 1:23 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: i was very much hoping , and sure that shellby was joking but unfortunately, there's plenty of people who truly, truly think like that. I know plenty of them. the god complex is real among a lot of LEOs, fire fighters, EMTs and so on. that attitude is very real thing

Haha, I don't think I'm better than anyone, but I do think people are fucking assholes.

(January 27, 2020 at 1:25 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(January 27, 2020 at 1:23 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: i was very much hoping , and sure that shellby was joking but unfortunately, there's plenty of people who truly, truly think like that. I know plenty of them. the god complex is real among a lot of LEOs, fire fighters, EMTs and so on. that attitude is very real thing

Haha, I don't think I'm better than anyone, but I do think people are fucking assholes.

No, I totally get it. I once watched a man in a wheel chair fall over in a patch of grass near the road and was appalled at how many people just drove by the guy, on CHRISTMAS EVE, mind you. So I calmly put my car and park with my hazards on (it was a busy, main road) and helped the guy up. Granted, he shouldn't have going through that patch of rough ass grass (pretty sure he was going to go get beer), but he was being stubborn so I helped him up and moved on.

But outside of a situation like this where we're specifically talking about it, I don't bring it up, because that's not why I did it.

So yeah, I hear you, a lot of people are callous assholes

So a "real man" isn't an asshole... and that helps to a definition. I don't think a "real man" has to be a hero either. Back to the cowards in foxholes; cowards firefighters or military don't do their job and that makes them bad at their job. If part of your job is to do something most consider heroic (ie. risking your life for others) is doing something heroic as part of your job. All I'm saying (and I think we're not that far off from each other) is that doing those heroic things can make you heroic, if you do them heroically. Doing those heroic things to get attention or pick the victim's pocket(or any other list of non-heroic reasoning) doesn't make the individual a hero. That to me means that being a hero isn't about what you do, but how and why you do it. If the last sentence is true, then simply being a firefighter, or military, etc. doesn't make you a hero of itself.

There's no room for heroism in combat arms. This gets drilled in hard, but doesn't seem to effect public perception.

(January 27, 2020 at 12:53 pm)tackattack Wrote:

(January 27, 2020 at 12:40 pm)Shell B Wrote: I don't think obligation negates heroism one bit. A firefighter can still turn around and not do his job out of fear. I firefighter still makes a choice to enter a burning building, from the moment he or she signs up. They aren't particularly obligated, and they definitely don't lose their hero status because they might be obligated. A good firefighter is one of the most heroic people on the planet. Put on those clothes and go for a walk in the park and tell me you'd still run into a burning building wearing them.

I'm not saying you can't have a heroic job. I disagree Shell, only in that "doing what you signed up to do" isn't a qualification for heroism. I signed up to be in the military. That doesn't make me heroic, because it BECOMES my status quo when it because my job to do heroic things. Where I think your statement fails is in the fact that they are particularly obligated by signing up for the job. They can still be heroes. I know some cops, firefighters and military. I consider some of them greatly heroic people, but not because they do their job. I consider them heroic for other characteristics like selflessness and honest/trustworthiness, being able to make the hard decision. Others I consider good firefighters, cops and grunts because they do their job well, but not particularly in a heroic fashion.

For Mr. Greene. You answered your own question. "Failure to be seen to be your kids hero is to fail at being a parent. Failure to be a role model" Being a role model is different than being a hero. They are different. In common vernacular we can use them interchangeably, because someone who is a hero is usually considered a good role model. Not all role models are generally heroic, especially when the job of role model is forced by biological and societal dictums. There are many good and bad role model parents. The good ones can be heroes, I just don't think they necessarily have to.

A parent is just 'any' role model, they are the first and therefore the benchmark by which all other role models will be judged.
This means that they are either hero or monster, the choice is that stark. You only have to look at the thankfully fictional character in the wholly fable to see that. 
Choosing to be a parent is to choose to take on the role, society does not force anything, indeed society has developed a range of birth control methods precisely to provide choice.

(January 27, 2020 at 2:09 pm)tackattack Wrote: So a "real man" isn't an asshole... and that helps to a definition.

I didn't say that. Every man is a real man.

Quote:I don't think a "real man" has to be a hero either.

Agreed.

Quote:Back to the cowards in foxholes; cowards firefighters or military don't do their job and that makes them bad at their job. If part of your job is to do something most consider heroic (ie. risking your life for others) is doing something heroic as part of your job. All I'm saying (and I think we're not that far off from each other) is that doing those heroic things can make you heroic, if you do them heroically. Doing those heroic things to get attention or pick the victim's pocket(or any other list of non-heroic reasoning) doesn't make the individual a hero. That to me means that being a hero isn't about what you do, but how and why you do it. If the last sentence is true, then simply being a firefighter, or military, etc. doesn't make you a hero of itself.

I honestly don't feel like intention has much to do with it.