@arewethereyet sorry, that was a typo, it's the concept of johari's window (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...HJnrVci4Wy)

I'm happy to answer on my own behalf anything you'd like.

My sadistic paternal grandmother threatened me with the tortures of hell from the age of two, she beat religion into her own children! Frightening people, especially children and the vulnerable, in this way is very abusive and should be illegal.

So does this mean that when Christians tell their own children that they are going to hell is also abusive?

If you mean parents, or anyone else, telling children there is a heaven and a hell then of course it is not abusive. Telling anyone the truth is not abusive. If you mean parents, or anyone else, telling a child, or anyone else, they personally are going to hell then they are simply putting themselves in place of God. Only He would know and only He is the judge.

(February 6, 2020 at 12:50 am)ColdComfort Wrote:
So does this mean that when Christians tell their own children that they are going to hell is also abusive?

If you mean parents, or anyone else, telling children there is a heaven and a hell then of course it is not abusive. Telling anyone the truth is not abusive. If you mean parents, or anyone else, telling a child, or anyone else, they personally are going to hell then they are simply putting themselves in place of God. Only He would know and only He is the judge.

So then why do you think people find this incident offensive?

(January 29, 2020 at 12:41 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Well, you could just exclude that incongruous detail from magic books true or plausible portion.  

As if people ever bullshitted anyone else about some fairies.  Thing is, is that most of the people with issues like you mention actually worship the magic book, not the god it allegedly describes.

(February 6, 2020 at 1:21 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(February 6, 2020 at 12:50 am)ColdComfort Wrote:
So does this mean that when Christians tell their own children that they are going to hell is also abusive?

If you mean parents, or anyone else, telling children there is a heaven and a hell then of course it is not abusive. Telling anyone the truth is not abusive. If you mean parents, or anyone else, telling a child, or anyone else, they personally are going to hell then they are simply putting themselves in place of God. Only He would know and only He is the judge.

So then why do you think people find this incident offensive?

You could ask them. I got to the point where the guy said 'you will go to hell'. To repeat myself a bit:  1) how does he know?  and 2) he presumes to put himself in the place of God.

I'm not fond of guys with megaphones preaching their version of Christianity. A few months ago there were two of them at the main intersection of the city I live in. One of them didn't take kindly when I refused his pamphlet. A sneer towards another lost soul. So I told them I was Catholic and they were going to hell unless they started receiving the sacraments. I had no right to say so but you know... bad day... that kind of thing. 

I think Islam is a false religion. It's kind of a Christian heresy which is why Dante put Mohammed in hell suffering being split from head to toe, then healed, then split again. Forever. Protestants are schismatics and often heretics. It's a simple act of charity to tell someone the truth. Jesus, and the Church He founded, gives us very serious warning of hell.

God is Love but Love is not God.

(February 6, 2020 at 1:59 am)ColdComfort Wrote: You could ask them. I got to the point where the guy said 'you will go to hell'. To repeat myself a bit:  1) how does he know?  and 2) he presumes to put himself in the place of God.

I'm not fond of guys with megaphones preaching their version of Christianity. A few months ago there were two of them at the main intersection of the city I live in. One of them didn't take kindly when I refused his pamphlet. A sneer towards another lost soul. So I told them I was Catholic and they were going to hell unless they started receiving the sacraments. I had no right to say so but you know... bad day... that kind of thing. 

I think Islam is a false religion. It's kind of a Christian heresy which is why Dante put Mohammed in hell suffering being split from head to toe, then healed, then split again. Forever. Protestants are schismatics and often heretics. It's a simple act of charity to tell someone the truth. Jesus, and the Church He founded, gives us very serious warning of hell.

God is Love but Love is not God.

That's the thing: mostly any Muslim will tell you likewise that you are going to hell, as will hindu and members of other religions that believe in their version of hell. To them it is also a "fact" that you are going to hell as it is a "fact" to you that they are going into your religion's hell.

So until you guys settle among yourself who is right and also find evidence for hell's existence, you don't get to call "going to hell" a fact but just your uninformed opinion.

(February 6, 2020 at 2:41 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: That's the thing: mostly any Muslim will tell you likewise that you are going to hell, as will hindu and members of other religions that believe in their version of hell. To them it is also a "fact" that you are going to hell as it is a "fact" to you that they are going into your religion's hell.

So until you guys settle among yourself who is right and also find evidence for hell's existence, you don't get to call "going to hell" a fact but just your uninformed opinion.

Wow. Few words but some really bad reasoning. Prop A contradicts Prop B. Both cannot be true. Both may be false. One may be true while the other is false. Is there something about that you don't understand? 

And there is plenty of evidence for the truth of Christianity.  Historical evidence and the reasoning from it. That you are ignorant of the evidence or reject it just means you are wrong.  That 'no evidence' claim must be intentionally dishonest or the product of sloppy thinking. What exactly do you think people have been writing and thinking about for the last two thousand years? Even non-believers have to deal with a mountain of evidence. Bart Ehrman wouldn't have a job if there was no evidence.

At work.

Hello ColdComfort and welcome to the forums. Sorry if I missed your intro thread.

So..... what might be this 'Evidence' of which you speak?

Cheers.

(February 6, 2020 at 3:38 am)ColdComfort Wrote: Bart Ehrman wouldn't have a job if there was no evidence.

Really? Bart has evidence for the existence of Hell? Nah, you're just confused and frenzy.

(February 6, 2020 at 4:14 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(February 6, 2020 at 3:38 am)ColdComfort Wrote: Bart Ehrman wouldn't have a job if there was no evidence.

Really? Bart has evidence for the existence of Hell? Nah, you're just confused and frenzy.

You are wrong. I'm in a take no prisoners mood so I'm not going to give you a break by saying you misunderstood my post. Bart does have evidence for the existence of hell. He's a biblical scholar. If he, after considering the evidence which you claim does not exist, concludes there is no hell that is another matter. You must get the drift. It's not a difficult point I'm making.

And to continue with the in your face attitude: Our Lady appeared to three humble peasant children at Fatima. She showed them hell and spoke of it to them. The claim is evidence. Get it? After reading a lot of the evidence that is readily available to anyone these days I am convinced that the claim is true. If it is true that that the Mother of Jesus appeared to people at Lourdes, Fatima and elsewhere then your atheism disappears in dust. But you have to examine the evidence with an open mind, don't you? You can't even get to the simple and indisputable point of admitting that there is any evidence.