Well.... there we have it. Good Reason™ has nothing to do with valid logic or sound propositions.

I don't think that you're going to get far with that one.

Here's what has always amused me about the Abrahamic religions.

First, the Jews invented a religion in which the god was wrathful, vicious, and, let's face it, a right prick.

Then the Christians grabbed it, tossed out the Old Testament (except where it's convenient for their agenda), wrote the New Testament to include a more "loving" god (though still a self absorbed, sexist, bigoted piece of shit), based around a carpenter who probably didn't exist but, according to them, fulfilled all the OT prophecies. Though the Jews said he didn't and they ARE their prophecies, after all.

And since this mythical carpenter was nailed up, it's lead to 2,000 years of persecution against the Jews even though they were, according to the myth, following God's will when it happened, and the aforementioned carpenter WAS here as a sacrifice because this perfect deity fucked up again (see Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark, etc. etc...).

Then around 1,500 years ago God decided "third time lucky, huh?" and tapped some illiterate peasant on the same region (notice a pattern here?) as his prophet and said, "just write some fantastical bullshit, add some fancy phrasing, then get some followers and go and put everyone who doesn't follow you to the sword. You can still treat women like shit though! Oh, and scrub that bit about the carpenter being my son. Ungrateful little bastard!"

And billions still believe it!

They'll believe the inevitable fourth round of fanfic too. Already working on it.

(April 5, 2020 at 5:37 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: They'll believe the inevitable fourth round of fanfic too. Already working on it.

But that's where Mo was fairly clever, because he said that god told him Islam was the final revelation, so the Muslim community can rightfully, according to their own mythology, declare chapters 4 and beyond moot.

Thought the xtians already tried that but obviously the plan doesn't work.
Besides Ba'Hai and Sikhism already exist

(April 5, 2020 at 4:25 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Well.... there we have it.  Good Reason™ has nothing to do with valid logic or sound propositions.

I don't think that you're going to get far with that one.

"broken handles and smashed glasses therefore burglar" isn't a sound proposition either. Yet we go with it. That's the point of the whole post.

Bottom line, atheists, and yourself, can think straight all day long until the god question comes up;

(April 5, 2020 at 5:33 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Here's what has always amused me about the Abrahamic religions.

First, the Jews invented a religion in which the god was wrathful, vicious, and, let's face it, a right prick.

Then the Christians grabbed it, tossed out the Old Testament (except where it's convenient for their agenda), wrote the New Testament to include a more "loving" god (though still a self absorbed, sexist, bigoted piece of shit), based around a carpenter who probably didn't exist but, according to them, fulfilled all the OT prophecies.  Though the Jews said he didn't and they ARE their prophecies, after all.

And since this mythical carpenter was nailed up, it's lead to 2,000 years of persecution against the Jews even though they were, according to the myth, following God's will when it happened, and the aforementioned carpenter WAS here as a sacrifice because this perfect deity fucked up again (see Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark, etc. etc...).

Then around 1,500 years ago God decided "third time lucky, huh?" and tapped some illiterate peasant on the same region (notice a pattern here?) as his prophet and said, "just write some fantastical bullshit, add some fancy phrasing, then get some followers and go and put everyone who doesn't follow you to the sword.  You can still treat women like shit though! Oh, and scrub that bit about the carpenter being my son.  Ungrateful little bastard!"

And billions still believe it!

Where are your peer reviewed papers in some history of religions journal? I suggest you keep your stereotypical, and ignorant, interpretations of the prophets' messages to yourself. Just say it, you are a blind adept of scientism, and can't have a nuanced opinion about anything related to religion.

(April 7, 2020 at 1:28 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

(April 5, 2020 at 4:25 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Well.... there we have it.  Good Reason™ has nothing to do with valid logic or sound propositions.

I don't think that you're going to get far with that one.

"broken handles and smashed glasses therefore burglar" isn't a sound proposition either. Yet we go with it. That's the point of the whole post.

Bottom line, atheists, and yourself, can think straight all day long until the god question comes up;

b-mine
It's interesting that you would claim that after explicitly insisting that we think sideways all the time, don't you think...?

Obviously, the issue of your inability to present a single coherent thought on the matter is academic in the context of your excusing yourself from any obligation to offer coherent thoughts.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think about gods in precisely the same way that I think about anything..right or wrong. If you object to the way I think then theres really nothing you have to offer me. If you object because you think I'm wrong...well......good luck communicating that without some reference to objective and coherent propositions.

Quote:"broken handles and smashed glasses therefore burglar" isn't a sound proposition either. Yet we go with it. That's the point of the whole post.

It's sound enough if that was the point you failed miserably 

Quote:Bottom line, atheists, and yourself, can think straight all day long until the god question comes up;

Yes we can think straight including you silly god claims .Too bad you don't .

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Quote:Where are your peer reviewed papers in some history of religions journal? I suggest you keep your stereotypical, and ignorant, interpretations of the prophets' messages to yourself. Just say it, you are a blind adept of scientism, and can't have a nuanced opinion about anything related to religion.

Irony

---

(April 7, 2020 at 2:09 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(April 7, 2020 at 1:28 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: "broken handles and smashed glasses therefore burglar" isn't a sound proposition either. Yet we go with it. That's the point of the whole post.

Bottom line, atheists, and yourself, can think straight all day long until the god question comes up;

b-mine
It's interesting that you would claim that after explicitly insisting that we think sideways all the time, don't you think...?

Obviously, the issue of your inability to present a single coherent thought on the matter is academic in the context of your excusing yourself from any obligation to offer coherent thoughts.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think about gods in precisely the same way that I think about anything..right or wrong.  If you object to the way I think then theres really nothing you have to offer me.  If you object because you think I'm wrong...well......good luck communicating that without some reference to objective and coherent propositions.

But Grand were suppose to switch our brains off and make nonsensical logical leaps and are suppose to revel in poor reasoning .

FYI glass can break naturally and handles can fall apart for a variety of reason

(April 7, 2020 at 2:09 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: b-mine
It's interesting that you would claim that after explicitly insisting that we think sideways all the time, don't you think...?

Okay. Let's just skip the formalities : what would be your reaction the moment you find your house broken into and your money taken..? I want a direct answer and the underlying reasoning that led to it.

(April 7, 2020 at 2:09 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Obviously, the issue of your inability to present a single coherent thought on the matter is academic in the context of your excusing yourself from any obligation to offer coherent thoughts.

And what about your inability to recognize "something can't come from nothing" as true and that it doesn't involve special pleading.. since there was no nothing that preceeded a deity, eternal by definition. That's a very simple coherent thought you're dishonestly avoiding ....!!?

(April 7, 2020 at 2:09 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I can't speak for everyone, but I think about gods in precisely the same way that I think about anything..right or wrong.  If you object to the way I think then theres really nothing you have to offer me.  If you object because you think I'm wrong...well......good luck communicating that without some reference to objective and coherent propositions.

I am asking you to apply the same rules of thumb you use on a daily basis to the god question. If you think they're not reliable, you should normally stop relying on them altogether, as a rational skeptic.... Am I asking too much?

Quote:Okay. Let's just skip the formalities : what would be your reaction the moment you find your house broken into and your money taken..? I want a direct answer and the underlying reasoning that led to it.

Something steals money 
Something can break into the house to take the money 
The money is missing 
Something did both these actions 

Quote:And what about your inability to recognize "something can't come from nothing"

Baseless assertion 

Quote: as true and that it doesn't involve special pleading.. 

Yes it does 

Quote:since there was no nothing that preceeded a deity, eternal by definition.

Still special pleading 

Quote: That's a very simple coherent thought you're dishonestly avoiding ....!!?

No it's not 

Quote:I am asking you to apply the same rules of thumb you use on a daily basis to the god question.

He is

Quote: If you think they're not reliable, you should normally stop relying on them altogether, as a rational skeptic.... Am I asking too much?

He is