(April 4, 2020 at 10:31 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(April 4, 2020 at 10:23 am)Editz Wrote: Yup, probs v tricky to implement but essential IMO to the survival of the species.

Actually -

Implementing a mandatory restriction would be horrible way to go. (Like China tried)

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We need to change the mindset. We need to get people to WANT to not procreate. We need to quit rewarding breeders with tax advantages. We need to change our beliefs. 

Yes, like so many other things that ail society, this one can best be cured by a culture shift. A good start would be an acceptance of people who chose not to procreate. I suspect that there are many more people than you think who really don't want children but ultimately give in to social pressures. They are made to feel selfish, weird, even a guilt complex by not procreating. It's the same thing with marriage.

People have to understand and accept that marriage and children are not for everybody. I think such a cultural shift by itself would result in substantially lower birth rates. Lets take the stigma off childless and single people. In fact, lets turn it around and stigmatize the people putting the pressure on others to submit to a lifestyle which doesn't suit them. Who benefits from reluctant parents?

(April 9, 2020 at 10:08 pm)Fireball Wrote: There's a "televangelist", (Genesis II Church of Health and Healing) who is prescribing bleach as a cure for Covid-19, ranting away at callers and people visiting his website. He's been given a "cease and desist" order by the FDA, 48 hours to comply. He's a nut, sure. But I just have to consider that maybe it's just more bleach in the gene pool, were it not for the human toll on the survivors of the deceased.

People who take advice from people like that are ... unnecessary.

In the US, at least, people have as many children as they want. Not more children than they want, or less. We reproduce below the replacement rate.

It's a common feature of developed countries with (comparitively) wealthy citizens. If there's a mindset we need to change, it probably doesn't have anything to do with breeding. What people believe to be the effect of overpopulation is, in point of fact, the effect of induced poverty amid a world of plenty. This imposition of poverty has always come with a complimentary insistence that our mindless human cattle breed too much and are, therefore, the cause of their own misery.

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(April 9, 2020 at 5:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: In 1790, the world population was about one thousand million people. Having 2 or 3 children now strains resources far more the surviving 3 or 4 did in the 18th century.

Boru

We aren't living in a world of resource scarcity - there's nothing to strain.  It probably would have been easier to make the case in the 18th century, directly before the industrial revolution.  

Obviously, someone did - and got it completely wrong - but here we are in 2020, still entertaining the musings of the colonial elite.

Personally, I think that we do this for a number of reasons, many of which boil down to being uncomfortable with change to the point of insisting on what we already believe no matter how discredited it is, and the urge to externalize blame. It's not so much that an individual is explicitly drawing from the well of deep misgiving and cruelty toward man that these notions are born from - but that this has become so deeply ingrained and sanitized in our culture that it exists as a free hanging proposition.

A truth in search of demonstration, and finding it from one generation to the next regardless of where that demonstration is asserted. An idea so intuitively true and satisfying that no matter how many times it turns out to be wrong, we fly off to find another reason to insist that it's right.

I watched Fortress (1992 film) last night - dystopian sci-fi nearish future 1 child policy prison action flick, for the first time in abt 20 years. Quite good really, I thought, by today's standards anyway #there'snoaccountingfortaste. It occurred to me it might have been inspired as some US screenwriter's take on Commy China's one child policy which was in operation at the time. 

(April 10, 2020 at 6:47 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: In the US, at least, people have as many children as they want.  Not more children than they want, or less.  We reproduce below the replacement rate.

It's a common feature of developed countries with (comparitively) wealthy citizens.

That have empowered women and allowed them reproductive freedom and the sovereignty of their own of bodies.

Look at all the places where a high birth rate exists. You will find that the women are uneducated (not their fault), not empowered (not their fault), have no reproductive control (not their fault), have no voice (not their fault). Women are reduced to the status of second class citizens and mere baby factories.

(April 10, 2020 at 5:31 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(April 10, 2020 at 6:47 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: In the US, at least, people have as many children as they want.  Not more children than they want, or less.  We reproduce below the replacement rate.

It's a common feature of developed countries with (comparitively) wealthy citizens.

That have empowered women and allowed them reproductive freedom and the sovereignty of their own of bodies.

Look at all the places where a high birth rate exists. You will find that the women are uneducated (not their fault), not empowered (not their fault), have no reproductive control (not their fault), have no voice (not their fault). Women are reduced to the status of second class citizens and mere baby factories.

Accept even in those countries birth rates are going down .The middle east for instance or India

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/201904...rth-rates/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/a...58876.html

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what...29812.html

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what...29812.html

(April 10, 2020 at 5:40 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(April 10, 2020 at 5:31 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: That have empowered women and allowed them reproductive freedom and the sovereignty of their own of bodies.

Look at all the places where a high birth rate exists. You will find that the women are uneducated (not their fault), not empowered (not their fault), have no reproductive control (not their fault), have no voice (not their fault). Women are reduced to the status of second class citizens and mere baby factories.

Accept even in those countries birth rates are going down .The middle east for instance or India

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/201904...rth-rates/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/a...58876.html

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what...29812.html

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what...29812.html

As I said, from one of your links

"Changing household structures, economic growth and contraceptives prompt dramatic drop in fertility rate, study finds."

Empower the women, problem solved.

(April 10, 2020 at 6:01 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(April 10, 2020 at 5:40 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: Accept even in those countries birth rates are going down .The middle east for instance or India

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/201904...rth-rates/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/a...58876.html

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what...29812.html

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/what...29812.html

As I said, from one of your links

"Changing household structures, economic growth and contraceptives prompt dramatic drop in fertility rate, study finds."

Empower the women, problem solved.

I wasn't disagreeing

I’ve done my bit for population control - had a vasectomy at 19. Not sure what else I can do. Can’t really see meself standing on a street corner waving a placard that reads ‘STOP FUCKING!’

Boru

(April 10, 2020 at 7:11 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I’ve done my bit for population control - had a vasectomy at 19. Not sure what else I can do. Can’t really see meself standing on a street corner waving a placard that reads ‘STOP FUCKING!’

Boru

Is a lot of that going on the streets where you live? Fucking not sign holding.