(April 18, 2020 at 4:50 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 18, 2020 at 4:41 pm)Athene Wrote: The effects of long-term isolation and people being unable to work and feed their families will lead to tremendous devastation as well. 
IMO, maintaining stay-at-home/shelter-in-place orders for 12-18 months--or potentially even much, much longer--would be unreasonable considering that most people infected with COVID-19 will have mild symptoms and not become critically ill as a result of the virus. Additionally, everyone is not going to be lining up to take a new, barely-tested vaccine--mandate or not, regardless of what Bill Gates says.

At some point, much of the onus of prevention may have to fall on those who are at highest risk and/or those who provide care for them.

No, sorry, huge difference between plowing ahead regardless of warnings, and sheltering out of safety. 

And this particular virus isn't "risk" aimed. Perfectly healthy out of risk range people have died from it. 

https://time.com/5823124/sailor-dies-cor...dentified/

I understand that young and seemingly healthy individuals can be affected. Nonetheless, the vast majority of those infected will be experience mild symptoms and recover fine at home, and that is not something that to simply be disregarded the further along we go into this pandemic--especially if developing a vaccine proves to be more challenging than people hope.  

So something's gonna have to give prior to the vaccine coming down the pike. Ultimately that may come down to re-opening the country and utilizing approved treatments, recommending that only the high-risk socially-distance themselves and/or taking stringent precautions, and mandating that everyone cover their face in public spaces. 

There's no way to stop all identifiably (or non-identifiably) at-risk persons from dying from this without fundamentally wrecking the country and/or inflicting immense damage upon the middle class and working poor. And if you think people won't people won't suffer and die behind that, think again. Suicide, domestic violence, rising drug and alcohol abuse, crimes of desperation---starvation even. 
Everyone doesn't have the same access to resources, and food prices are steadily rising. Shelves aren't as readily restocked in the poorest neighborhoods. 

You're kidding yourself if you don't think this shit is a disaster in the making.

(April 18, 2020 at 5:41 pm)Athene Wrote:

(April 18, 2020 at 4:25 pm)Mermaid Wrote: Yes, so let's form giant, armed angry mobs to give her what for.

I think a little public outcry and civil disobedience should be sufficient enough at this juncture...lol

I've heard of big protests from right-wing groups in Minnesota, Michigan, and Virginia that have been happening demanding they reopen the states, with some legitimate complaints, but quite a few making clear that they do not give a shit about the potential risk from the pandemic; yes, the risk for most of us is just an illness and flattening the curve's only goal is to keep the number of cases from overwhelming the health system. That shit is happening.

(April 18, 2020 at 7:01 pm)Athene Wrote:

(April 18, 2020 at 4:50 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No, sorry, huge difference between plowing ahead regardless of warnings, and sheltering out of safety. 

And this particular virus isn't "risk" aimed. Perfectly healthy out of risk range people have died from it. 

https://time.com/5823124/sailor-dies-cor...dentified/

I understand that young and seemingly healthy individuals can be affected. Nonetheless, the vast majority of those infected will be experience mild symptoms and recover fine at home, and that is not something that to simply be disregarded the further along we go into this pandemic--especially if developing a vaccine proves to be more challenging than people hope.  

So something's gonna have to give prior to the vaccine coming down the pike. Ultimately that may come down to re-opening the country and utilizing approved treatments, recommending that only the high-risk socially-distance themselves and/or taking stringent precautions, and mandating that everyone cover their face in public spaces. 

There's no way to stop all identifiably (or non-identifiably) at-risk persons from dying from this without fundamentally wrecking the country and/or inflicting immense damage upon the middle class and working poor. And if you think people won't people won't suffer and die behind that, think again. Suicide, domestic violence, rising drug and alcohol abuse, crimes of desperation---starvation even. 
Everyone doesn't have the same access to resources, and food prices are steadily rising. Shelves aren't as readily restocked in the poorest neighborhoods. 

You're kidding yourself if you don't think this shit is a disaster in the making.

"Something's got to give".....

Yes, data, nothing more. Going too fast can potentially make things worse. 

The world has to follow the science and medicine and ultimately a vaccine.

Until then staying in place is the best practice.

Quote:I understand that young and seemingly healthy individuals can be affected. Nonetheless, the vast majority of those infected will be experience mild symptoms and recover fine at home,

You sound like Trump

Quote: and that is not something that to simply be disregarded the further along we go into this pandemic--especially if developing a vaccine proves to be more challenging than people hope.  

Irrelevant 

Quote:So something's gonna have to give prior to the vaccine coming down the pike. Ultimately that may come down to re-opening the country and utilizing approved treatments, recommending that only the high-risk socially-distance themselves and/or taking stringent precautions, and mandating that everyone cover their face in public spaces. 

Or we can do what's been working till the pandemic passes 

Quote:There's no way to stop all identifiably (or non-identifiably) at-risk persons from dying from this without fundamentally wrecking the country and/or inflicting immense damage upon the middle class and working poor. 

You sound like a Republican 

Quote:And if you think people won't people won't suffer and die behind that, think again. Suicide, domestic violence, rising drug and alcohol abuse, crimes of desperation---starvation even. 

Not a good reason 

Quote:Everyone doesn't have the same access to resources, and food prices are steadily rising. Shelves aren't as readily restocked in the poorest neighborhoods. 

You're kidding yourself if you don't think this shit is a disaster in the making.

No your kidding yourself if you think anyone buys weak appeals

Perhaps when new cases are declining, then relaxing social distancing guidelines might be a viable option. Key words here being “relaxing” and “might”. I’m not going to lie: it’s becoming apparent that waiting until the vaccine comes out is not all that viable. Why? Because the most optimistic timescale for that is in a year at the bare minimum. I don’t think this is very viable. And even then, there’s a distinct possibility that we might not even see it in our lifetimes. You might find this an exaggeration, but bear in mind, people have been trying to find vaccines for the common cold for decades. It’s been going on so long that I just found an article in the medical journals lamenting the long line of failures... and it was written in 1944. Yes, it was written ten years before my father was born, and we’re not all that much closer. Why, yes, that does suck.

There are and have always been ways to deal with covid that don't produce economic ruin. We're not doing them, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

The hellish dichotomy between dying for the dow and mitigating the spread of a disease is propaganda, aimed at compelling people to die for the dow.

(April 18, 2020 at 7:29 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There are and have always been ways to deal with covid that don't produce economic ruin.  We're not doing them, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

The hellish dichotomy between dying for the dow and mitigating the spread of a disease is propaganda, aimed at compelling people to die for the dow.

I'm feeling lazy as shit at the moment (must be low blood sugar, it's almost dinner time), so could you point me to something about dealing with covid (any virus, really)? A link is fine.

(April 18, 2020 at 4:54 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(April 18, 2020 at 4:41 pm)Athene Wrote: The effects of long-term isolation and people being unable to work and feed their families will lead to tremendous devastation as well. 
IMO, maintaining stay-at-home/shelter-in-place orders for 12-18 months--or potentially even much, much longer--would be unreasonable considering that most people infected with COVID-19 will have mild symptoms and not become critically ill as a result of the virus. Additionally, everyone is not going to be lining up to take a new, barely-tested vaccine--mandate or not, regardless of what Bill Gates says.

At some point, much of the onus of prevention may have to fall on those who are at highest risk and/or those who provide care for them.

No 

1. It doesn't matter how much it economically hurts .It's how this has to go 

2. Vaccine or no this is how it has to go 

3. And no the onus is on everyone till this ends

It does matter how much it hurts economically--especially to those living on the margins and who were already living paycheck to paycheck. The ability to earn an income in not simply a matter indulging in luxury and treats for millions of Americans; it's a matter of life and death. 

There are more than enough Americans who will not stand idly by for 1-2 years being locked down like inmates, lose everything they've ever worked for, and/or risk being unable to feed their families until the virus "disappears"--Not when there are other conceivable ways to mitigate the mortality rate while waiting on a vaccine.

The virus is not ending anytime soon. There's also a possibility that a vaccine will never come to fruition, and the virus will become endemic and never ever go away.

---

(April 18, 2020 at 5:40 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(April 18, 2020 at 5:35 pm)Athene Wrote: You can call slippery-slope fallacy if you like, but to my mind, this isn't about debate decorum. It's about drawing a fucking line in the sand.

Truth of the matter is, governments DO use crises such as these to incrementally implement fuckshit they wouldn't dare under normal circumstances, because ordinarily people would have no problem recognizing it as tyranny.

So in such cases, yeah--I think it's a good idea for such overreach to be confronted before it gets out of hand.

1. I call i so because it is .And worst still it's an arbitrary one 

2.Yes but that's not freaking happening .So put away your Alex Jones brand tinfoil hat .

3.Accept it's not overreach and your kind aren't confronting it .Half of you are just sulking .The other half are waving around guns .

What's "my kind", Tiz?

Do tell.

Quote:It does matter how much it hurts economically--especially to those living on the margins and who were already living paycheck to paycheck. The ability to earn an income in not simply a matter indulging in luxury and treats for millions of Americans; it's a matter of life and death. 

Yup like all those people you'll kill by breaking the quarantine .That's life and death 

Quote:There are more than enough Americans who will not stand idly by for 1-2 years being locked down like inmates, lose everything they've ever worked for, and/or risk being unable to feed their families until the virus "disappears"--Not when there are other conceivable ways to mitigate the mortality rate while waiting on a vaccine.

As opposed to those people who will die because and will most definitely lose everything like their lives .

Quote:The virus is not ending anytime soon. There's also a possibility that a vaccine will never come to fruition, and the virus will become endemic and never ever go away.

Yes it not ending soon which is the point

---

(April 18, 2020 at 8:09 pm)Athene Wrote:

(April 18, 2020 at 4:54 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: No 

1. It doesn't matter how much it economically hurts .It's how this has to go 

2. Vaccine or no this is how it has to go 

3. And no the onus is on everyone till this ends

It does matter how much it hurts economically--especially to those living on the margins and who were already living paycheck to paycheck. The ability to earn an income in not simply a matter indulging in luxury and treats for millions of Americans; it's a matter of life and death. 

There are more than enough Americans who will not stand idly by for 1-2 years being locked down like inmates, lose everything they've ever worked for, and/or risk being unable to feed their families until the virus "disappears"--Not when there are other conceivable ways to mitigate the mortality rate while waiting on a vaccine.

The virus is not ending anytime soon. There's also a possibility that a vaccine will never come to fruition, and the virus will become endemic and never ever go away.

---

(April 18, 2020 at 5:40 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: 1. I call i so because it is .And worst still it's an arbitrary one 

2.Yes but that's not freaking happening .So put away your Alex Jones brand tinfoil hat .

3.Accept it's not overreach and your kind aren't confronting it .Half of you are just sulking .The other half are waving around guns .

What's "my kind", Tiz?

Do tell.

Are you waving around a gun ?