Login

AniKoferBo · May 14, 2020 at 10:09 am

(May 14, 2020 at 6:28 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Sin in a religious (as opposed to a secular) context seems to largely consist of disapproving of things other people do while secretly wishing you could get away with doing them yourself.

Boru

sin is god of the moon in mesopotamian mythology

**The Grand Nudger** · May 14, 2020 at 10:18 am

It's unremarkable that pagan thought influences the terms and descriptions of christian belief, particularly in the context of it's ethical valuations. Christianity is a syncretic religion.

~~Drich~~ · May 14, 2020 at 10:21 am

(May 14, 2020 at 6:28 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Sin in a religious (as opposed to a secular) context seems to largely consist of disapproving of things other people do while secretly wishing you could get away with doing them yourself.

Boru

like what murder? it is your contention the religious are held back from murder by a single 4 word line in the bible? or how about working 7 days a week you think we made keep the sabbath holy because we would secretly want to work non stop without a brake if not for this command?

i think you are thinking of your sin of choice and assume it is like that with everyone.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: May 14, 2020 at 10:25 am by The Grand Nudger.)

Let's explore that. You asked whether four words in magic book stopped people from murder, or if that was why a day off from work is mandated. I think that the answer to that is as obvious a no as you do....but........

....if there is no moral case against murder, or for a day off...sin and morality not being the same thing..then what is the case for or against either?

In your estimation, ofc.

**arewethereyet** · (This post was last modified: May 14, 2020 at 10:34 am by arewethereyet.)

(May 14, 2020 at 10:21 am)Drich Wrote:
(May 14, 2020 at 6:28 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Sin in a religious (as opposed to a secular) context seems to largely consist of disapproving of things other people do while secretly wishing you could get away with doing them yourself.

Boru

like what murder? it is your contention the religious are held back from murder by a single 4 word line in the bible? or how about working 7 days a week you think we made keep the sabbath holy because we would secretly want to work non stop without a brake if not for this command?

i think you are thinking of your sin of choice and assume it is like that with everyone.

Well, let's see...you and yours are prone to saying that atheists don't believe in god or follow theistic rules because they want to sin and have no morals - because you can only get morals from gawd and the Bible.

Then you come in here and say that you don't get your morals from the Bible either.

Pick a side - any side.

So, where do these morals and rules regarding sin come from? If you, the believer, don't need the Bible to tell you what's right and wrong than why would anyone else?

~~Drich~~ · (This post was last modified: May 14, 2020 at 10:31 am by Drich.)

(May 14, 2020 at 8:25 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's not possible to remove the secular context of sin. Sin is crime. Over and over and over this legalism is expressed in old and new magic book. Sin is to transgress against the law, or to miss the mark. Sin asserts that there is a law to transgress, and a mark to miss.

John tells us that whoever commits sin transgresses against the law.
In romans we read that the law is holy, that the commandments are holy, righteous, and good.
Duet, Matthew, and John (again) go to great lengths to explain that sin is a violation of the laws of love that god has bestowed upon us so that we might live in peace and harmony with god and with each other - further clarifying the transgression.

John (again, again) tells us that all unrighteousness is sin. This particular quip is translated so many different ways in various editions that there isn't much bad stuff™ left out of what sin entails. They're trying to translate the term adikia - the greek goddess of injustice and wrongdoing, taken to mean "actions which cause visible harm to other persons in violation of divine standards". Magic book goes further, yet - asserting that bad attitudes lead to harmful outcomes and on the basis of this, that thought-crime is also sin. Jesus Himeslf™ lays this out in explicit detail.

Insomuch as we can crack jokes about sin being a list of things we want to do that we disapprove of in others - it works as a primarily because of that same relationship between law and human compulsion. The same relationship, in fact, that christians refer to as our fallen nature. Sin as a product of who and what we are. Inescapable to us. We will do harm, we will have bad thoughts, we will transgress, etc etc etc. These things will cause suffering, and the only way to deal with it is by making restitution or proper supplication. Pay the court or plead for mercy.

I have been Mandela effected/switch dimensions. where i come from in my original dimension of c-38 you are a screaming atheist and knows nothing of sin. forgive me for even saying that. but it is true.

not that i fully agree with how you see restitution being made but it will get you in the door if your heart is in the right place. Great

(May 14, 2020 at 8:47 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(May 14, 2020 at 8:25 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's not possible to remove the secular context of sin. Sin is crime. Over and over and over this legalism is expressed in old and new magic book. Sin is to transgress against the law, or to miss the mark. Sin asserts that there is a law to transgress, and a mark to miss.

John tells us that whoever commits sin transgresses against the law.
In romans we read that the law is holy, that the commandments are holy, righteous, and good.
Duet, Matthew, and John (again) go to great lengths to explain that sin is a violation of the laws of love that god has bestowed upon us so that we might live in peace and harmony with god and with each other - further clarifying the transgression.

John (again, again) tells us that all unrighteousness is sin. This particular quip is translated so many different ways in various editions that there isn't much bad stuff™ left out of what sin entails. They're trying to translate the term adikia - the greek goddess of injustice and wrongdoing, taken to mean "actions which cause visible harm to other persons in violation of divine standards". Magic book goes further, yet - asserting that bad attitudes lead to harmful outcomes and on the basis of this, that thought-crime is also sin. Jesus Himeslf™ lays this out in explicit detail.

Insomuch as we can crack jokes about sin being a list of things we want to do that we disapprove of in others - it works as a primarily because of that same relationship between law and human compulsion. The same relationship, in fact, that christians refer to as our fallen nature. Sin as a product of who and what we are. Inescapable to us. We will do harm, we will have bad thoughts, we will transgress, etc etc etc. These things will cause suffering, and the only way to deal with it is by making restitution or proper supplication. Pay the court or plead for mercy.

Suppose I carve a graven image, bow down before it, chant to it, and burn incense to honour it. This is a religious sin under the Second Commandment. How it is a crime, or a secular transgression?

Boru

seriously? is your scope of the human condition limited to life as a westerner?

ever hear of the religious purge china under went when switching from a emperor to a communist state? the burn all temples slay all priests and destroyed every graven image of the fat man they could find and made it illegal to worship any gods. this law was in effect till just a few years ago.

what because 1/3 of the world's population had to deal with it and you did not it doesn't count?

**The Grand Nudger** · May 14, 2020 at 10:34 am

The christianese "written on our hearts" is conceptually equivalent to the secular statement that human beings possess moral agency.

With the exception of those who genuinely believe in the doctrine of total depravity, there is no fundamental disagreement between the christian view of morality or moral agency and the secular view. Unsurprising, again, due to the syncretic nature of christian belief.

They heard what the pagan philosophers of classical antiquity had to say about moral agency and thought it was legit - they disagreed about gods. We (the unfaithful) also dip into that same pool when we make moral assessments or proclamations.

~~Drich~~ · May 14, 2020 at 10:34 am

(May 14, 2020 at 10:09 am)masoni Wrote:
(May 14, 2020 at 6:28 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Sin in a religious (as opposed to a secular) context seems to largely consist of disapproving of things other people do while secretly wishing you could get away with doing them yourself.

Boru

sin is god of the moon in mesopotamian mythology

And Sin the verb is an act that misses God's righteous standard.

AniKoferBo · May 14, 2020 at 10:35 am

(May 14, 2020 at 10:18 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's unremarkable that pagan thought influences the terms and descriptions of christian belief, particularly in the context of it's ethical valuations. Christianity is a syncretic religion.

christianity is paganism at it’s core

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: May 14, 2020 at 10:40 am by The Grand Nudger.)

(May 14, 2020 at 10:27 am)Drich Wrote:
I have been Mandela effected/switch dimensions.

Good for you, I guess?

Quote:where i come from in my original dimension of c-38 you are a screaming atheist and knows nothing of sin. forgive me for even saying that. but it is true.

You can argue with john paul and jesus until you're blue in the face for all I care. I think that those guys are probably the subject matter experts on this one, so you'll have to forgive me for pointing out that you're a random loon arguing against your own god's alleged words as expressed in a book that you believe has magical powers.

Quote:not that i fully agree with how you see restitution being made but it will get you in the door if your heart is in the right place.

Not an issue that impacts me. I'm not getting into the theme park in the sky. I don't have a soul as I'm not a son of adam, seek to make no restitution to the gods, nor am I interested in pleading to them for mercy.

That out of the way, do you care to elaborate on what case there is against murder or for a day off of work, having removed moral consideration?

Login
Username:
Password:	Lost Password?
	Remember me

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread		Author	Replies	Views	Last Post
	Sin and death	LinuxGal	35	4215	December 11, 2023 at 8:32 pm Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
	And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.	vorlon13	14	3488	August 1, 2017 at 2:54 am Last Post: ignoramus
	Sin and the Blame Game	LadyForCamus	115	33231	June 20, 2017 at 7:37 pm Last Post: Huggy Bear
	Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Remission of Sin	Rhondazvous	231	66605	June 4, 2017 at 9:31 am Last Post: Zenith
	Why Lust is bad, not gonna use "sin" reason but logical reason	Rispri	27	6293	March 4, 2017 at 7:38 pm Last Post: Ravenshire
	Question for Christians regarding elimination of Sin	ErGingerbreadMandude	11	3127	January 29, 2017 at 4:25 pm Last Post: The Wise Joker
	hate the sin, love the sinner	mcolafson	101	17361	September 5, 2016 at 11:19 am Last Post: LostLocke
	Sin & Forgiveness	miaharun	119	18873	November 16, 2015 at 4:04 am Last Post: robvalue
	The illusion of justice, sin and free will	dyresand	17	5107	October 15, 2015 at 10:42 pm Last Post: Pyrrho
	HOMOSEXUALITY IS A 'SIN'	BigGiantPorky	98	24359	August 1, 2015 at 10:58 am Last Post: dyresand