So, what do you guys here think, is it reasonable to believe ketogenic diets (low-carb, low-protein, high-fat diets) help against epilepsy? In my blog-post, I argued it's not reasonable to believe that:

https://flatassembler.github.io/lowcarb.html Wrote:Nearly 100 years have passed, and science still hasn't found an answer to the question how can ketogenic diets or fasting possibly help against epilepsy. And more we know about human brain, less plausible it seems that fasting or ketogenic diet help against epilepsy. Anti-diabetic drugs that result in hypoglycemia don't appear to be effective against epilepsy, and neither do the drugs that cause the liver to produce ketone bodies. High-quality studies are, just with any supposed diet cure, difficult or impossible to make because they are very hard to single-blind, yet alone double-blind. Those studies that show it works, of course, nearly always also show it also causes kidney stones (as ketones usually cause), problems with concentration (because human brain is basically made for a high-starch diet and doesn't work well without starch), high cholesterol (because the fats in coconuts and avocados are for the large part saturated fats), and so on.

Yes. It’s used to treat children with seizure disorders who don’t respond to medication, and it has been demonstrated to be effective.

OP: Better to leave this to the medical professionals. I know it been used for thousands of years and, as LFC stated, it is effective and appropriate under specific conditions/circumstances.

I've heard marijuana is good for epilepsy.
As in, I have friends who swear by it, claiming it reduces seizures to every six months instead of every couple of weeks.

Having (just) skimmed several papers on the topic, it appears that a ketogenic diet is a VERY good idea for people who don’t respond to various medications for epilepsy. Improvement rates are high and, as long as the patient is monitored, the side effects are generally mild and manageable.

There don’t really seem to be any strong arguments against such a diet.

Good question, though, Fiat. I learned some stuff.

Boru

LadyForCamus Wrote:It’s used to treat children with seizure disorders who don’t respond to medication, and it has been demonstrated to be effective.

"Demonstrated" really isn't a word commonly used in science, since science usually doesn't deal with absolute certainty. And, when it comes to claims such as a diet being capable of treating some disease, I don't think you can even reach reasonable certainty.

brewer Wrote:I know it been used for thousands of years

Well, yeah, fasting (which has similar physiological effects to ketogenic diet) has been recommended as a treatment for epilepsy since ancient times. But, guess what, so has bloodletting. Bloodletting has been used to treat various illnesses (including anaemia) for thousands of years, yet we now know it was, in best cases, a way to alleviate the symptoms without treating the underline cause, and, in most of the cases, it was actually counter-productive.

(May 18, 2020 at 4:05 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote:

LadyForCamus Wrote:It’s used to treat children with seizure disorders who don’t respond to medication, and it has been demonstrated to be effective.

"Demonstrated" really isn't a word commonly used in science, since science usually doesn't deal with absolute certainty. And, when it comes to claims such as a diet being capable of treating some disease, I don't think you can even reach reasonable certainty.

brewer Wrote:I know it been used for thousands of years

Well, yeah, fasting (which has similar physiological effects to ketogenic diet) has been recommended as a treatment for epilepsy since ancient times. But, guess what, so has bloodletting. Bloodletting has been used to treat various illnesses (including anaemia) for thousands of years, yet we now know it was, in best cases, a way to alleviate the symptoms without treating the underline cause, and, in most of the cases, it was actually counter-productive.

The chief difference is that bloodletting doesn’t work, ketosis does.

But it isn’t as if physicians are recommending ketogenic diets to all of their epileptic patients. A solid majority respond well to meds, about 30% do not. For these people, the diet is shown to work for the majority of them and to work very well.

Boru

(May 18, 2020 at 3:01 pm)Little lunch Wrote: I've heard marijuana is good for epilepsy.
As in, I have friends who swear by it, claiming it reduces seizures to every six months instead of every couple of weeks.

I had a riding bro in California that had epilepsy and swore by reefer.....

Of course he was taking phenobarbital large - while drinking alcohol....

I once saw him puke while riding his bike. It didn't throw him off in the least.

Fucker will probably outlive us all.....

(May 18, 2020 at 4:05 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote:

LadyForCamus Wrote:It’s used to treat children with seizure disorders who don’t respond to medication, and it has been demonstrated to be effective.

"Demonstrated" really isn't a word commonly used in science, since science usually doesn't deal with absolute certainty. And, when it comes to claims such as a diet being capable of treating some disease, I don't think you can even reach reasonable certainty.

“Demonstrated” is absolutely a word used in science, and it’s not synonymous with “absolute certainty.” Anyway, why did you ask the question if you don’t like the answer?

(May 18, 2020 at 4:51 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(May 18, 2020 at 4:05 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: "Demonstrated" really isn't a word commonly used in science, since science usually doesn't deal with absolute certainty. And, when it comes to claims such as a diet being capable of treating some disease, I don't think you can even reach reasonable certainty.

“Demonstrated” is absolutely a word used in science, and it’s not synonymous with “absolute certainty.” Anyway, why did you ask the question if you don’t like the answer?

Some people just want to be agreed with, I reckon.

Boru