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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 1, 2020 at 5:20 pm
(June 1, 2020 at 5:05 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (June 1, 2020 at 8:10 am)polymath257 Wrote: The scientific method goes far beyond what the Tufts University description says. ALL that needs to happens is that there are observable patterns in what happens. And if there are such patterns, science can be done.
The passage I quoted isn't a comprehensive description of the scientific method. It's about methodological naturalism. I thought it was strange that you repeatedly advocate methodological naturalism while denying that such a thing is necessary.
Quote:If we observed ghosts and those ghosts had detectable patterns of behavior, then science can study ghosts.
I'm glad you've come around to my position on this.
I've said repeatedly that things have natures, and that if they do only what is in accord with their natures then the thing is natural. I've pointed out that many Christians say that God is natural because he only is and does in accord with his nature.
You resisted this at first but it seems we agree on this part now.
I'd change that slightly and say that *if* God exists, he/she/it is natural. 
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 1, 2020 at 6:55 pm
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2020 at 6:56 pm by possibletarian.)
(June 1, 2020 at 5:20 pm)polymath257 Wrote: (June 1, 2020 at 5:05 pm)Belacqua Wrote: The passage I quoted isn't a comprehensive description of the scientific method. It's about methodological naturalism. I thought it was strange that you repeatedly advocate methodological naturalism while denying that such a thing is necessary.
I'm glad you've come around to my position on this.
I've said repeatedly that things have natures, and that if they do only what is in accord with their natures then the thing is natural. I've pointed out that many Christians say that God is natural because he only is and does in accord with his nature.
You resisted this at first but it seems we agree on this part now.
I'd change that slightly and say that *if* God exists, he/she/it is natural.
Maybe if god could be observed in some way then it would be natural. made up definitions for a god don't constitute a nature.
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 1, 2020 at 7:17 pm
@ LadyForCamus
My "Alerts" list indicates that you've replied to me a couple of times in the last hour or so, but I don't see the posts. It may be that my computer is glitching.
I'm not ignoring you.
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 1, 2020 at 9:30 pm
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2020 at 9:33 pm by Succubus#2.)
(May 31, 2020 at 10:13 pm)Belacqua Wrote: This is from Tufts University:
Quote:Methodological naturalism is not a "doctrine" but an essential aspect of the methodology of science, the study of the natural universe. If one believes that natural laws and theories based on them will not suffice to solve the problems attacked by scientists - that supernatural and thus nonscientific principles must be invoked from time to time - then one cannot have the confidence in scientific methodology that is prerequisite to doing science. The spectacular successes over four centuries of science based on methodological naturalism cannot be gainsaid. On the other hand, a scientist who, when stumped, invokes a supernatural cause for a phenomenon he or she is investigating is guaranteed that no scientific understanding of the problem will ensue.
Yes it's a good read but I fail to see how it supports your position, If you had a position that is.
Bel, what's the difference between an apologist for god and an apologist for the supernatural?
How could an outsider looking in decide?
Miserable Bastard.
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 2, 2020 at 4:47 am
If the past is any indication, he'll decide that there's no way to decide.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 2, 2020 at 8:27 am
(June 1, 2020 at 6:55 pm)possibletarian Wrote: (June 1, 2020 at 5:20 pm)polymath257 Wrote: I'd change that slightly and say that *if* God exists, he/she/it is natural.
Maybe if god could be observed in some way then it would be natural. made up definitions for a god don't constitute a nature.
And I have yet to see a good, operational definition of the term 'God'.
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 2, 2020 at 8:31 am
(June 2, 2020 at 8:27 am)polymath257 Wrote: And I have yet to see a good, operational definition of the term 'God'.
This just shows that you're not paying attention. There are good clear definitions.
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 2, 2020 at 8:48 am
As good and clear as your definitions of natural and supernatural?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 2, 2020 at 11:46 am
(This post was last modified: June 2, 2020 at 11:47 am by polymath257.)
(June 2, 2020 at 8:31 am)Belacqua Wrote: (June 2, 2020 at 8:27 am)polymath257 Wrote: And I have yet to see a good, operational definition of the term 'God'.
This just shows that you're not paying attention. There are good clear definitions.
Please give one.
I am still waiting for your definition of 'natural' that would allow for a supernatural.
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
June 2, 2020 at 3:58 pm
(June 2, 2020 at 11:46 am)polymath257 Wrote: Please give one.
The form of the good.
Quote:I am still waiting for your definition of 'natural' that would allow for a supernatural.
You rejected the definition by begging the question. We've been through this.
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