(June 10, 2020 at 2:44 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: If you’re asking why Native Americans don’t riot like Black people do, then that’s been asked and answered. In any other respect, I don’t think they do.

oh, ok then can you provide a list of cities that have been burned? perhaps a list of targets or cvs. maybe a list of privately own businesses..

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(June 10, 2020 at 2:52 pm)no one Wrote: Apparently, drick's avatar is more intelligent than the drickster itself.

how so?

I mean did you know native Americans were slaves to america 3 times longer and in 10 times the quantity? that rather than let them Go the Us moved to exterminate the whole race?

Drich

(June 10, 2020 at 2:44 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: If you’re asking why Native Americans don’t riot like Black people do, then that’s been asked and answered. In any other respect, I don’t think they do.

oh, ok then can you provide a list of cities that have been burned? perhaps a list of targets or cvs. maybe a list of privately own businesses..

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(June 10, 2020 at 2:52 pm)no one Wrote: Apparently, drick's avatar is more intelligent than the drickster itself.

Quote:how so?

I mean did you know native Americans were slaves to america 3 times longer and in 10 times the quantity? that rather than let them Go the Us moved to exterminate the whole race?

What’s your point? That the bad treatment of Native Americans somehow makes the treatment of African slaves excusable?

And your research continues to suck.

https://www.brown.edu/news/2017-02-15/enslavement

Quote:Native American slavery “is a piece of the history of slavery that has been glossed over,” Fisher said. “Between 1492 and 1880, between 2 and 5.5 million Native Americans were enslaved in the Americas in addition to 12.5 million African slaves.”

Since when is 5.5 million ‘10 times’ 12.5 million?


Boru

(June 10, 2020 at 3:25 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 10, 2020 at 2:06 pm)Drich Wrote: saw this you tube video and something she said stuck in my craw bad... she claimed blacks have been slaves for 450 years in the colonies/america. so i researched it.. while Americas have a history of more than 450 years of slavery.. blacks only endured about 100 years of it.  and to a far greater number than our first choice in slave.

monopoly lady speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WUs1R8-tHQ

my comment:
You guys know that black people were not the only race of people who were enslaved and work as chattel slaves in america right? In fact black people were not widly used as slaves till after 1750 as native Americans were far cheaper and in greater number with little to no extra shipping costs. In fact it is guesstimated that 2.5 to 5.5 million native Americans were used in slavery.  



It stopped because the remaining tribes began to fight back, and when a native slave escaped he knew the land and could survive.



My point is that 450 years of slavery and oppression which keeps blacks down from winning the monopoly Game the monopoly lady Said was killing black Americans is closer 150/110 if you count native american oppression during that time..



still a long time to be under oppression, but if you look at the escalation against the native Americans when white slave owners experienced push back from native tribes. We did not set the native free as we did with black people after the civil war..



America/The colonies when from owning the natives (which include Mexican natives as well) to literal genocide. Trail of tears, concentration camps. The whole 9 yards.. and still subjugated the last 50 years of same jim crow type of racial oppression blacks endured



My question is, why dont the native Americans riot and “burn shit down” when ever they get a chance? many live in 3rd world poverty (worse than inner city black people) and they as a people do not make a mad grab 'because it is the only time they have a chance to own things.' The Indians were enslaved longer, and in far greater numbers again 2.5 million to 5.5 million native slaves (verse) 388,000 black slaves from 1525 to 1866. That is almost 10:1/10 times the number of slaves!!!!
yet no entitlement on the scale that rioting black america sees.


Not only that the genocide the US MILITARY enacted to wipe them all out, by forcing death marches to land one could mot survive on. Plus the same 50 years of jim crow law oppression still applying to them as they were not white.  So really blacks endured 110 of slavery and oppression as slaves/not genocide that the natives didnot, as they were being systematically being wiped off the planet. We did this so well that 60 years later aldoph hitler was inspired by the US's genocide, and tried the same with the jews.. Even so they are still NOT looking to “burn shit down. “



Probably because as a people there is no mental block from their leadership telling them they can't the white man this the white man that. Yet they live in the same white dominated America the rest of us do and still The natives dont have problems owning land or businesses or saving money or not kill one another to the degree back gang members kill other black gang members nor have the crime stats.



That means the oppression is a narrative taught to black people by their leaders to keep them down just like malcom x said

https://youtu.be/T3PaqxblOx0



Black people are being used by their leaders to try and push and direct this nation by fear and white guilt.



The proof is found in all of the other immigrants who were subject to the same exclusionary whites only racism blacks endured. Yet many more of them percentage wise make it.. How Can they if racism is systematic? Why is it literal Africans who come to america find it so easy to succeed why do the majority of Nigerians hold degrees? Why do they have business disproportionately to African Americans if oppression of black men was a systemic problem in this country?



Black slave number references:  https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-america...in-the-us/



Native american slave references:


http://nativeyouthmagazine.com/business.html


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_States





https://slate.janrainsso.com//static/server.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Farticles%2Fnews_and_politics%2Fcover_story%2F2016%2F01%2Fnative_american_slavery_historians_uncover_a_chilling_chapter_in_u_s_history.html


I love black people. it is with love i tell you don't let this monopoly video tell you, there are barriers in society that largely do not exist for another race.  what you are experiencing is what Koreans call Han. it is the individual struggle of being a subjugated people with new freedom you do not know how to use. Koreans were enslaved a lot more recently than 200 years ago. many alive today either lived as a slave or just 1 or 2 generation out of slavery. 1/2 the country is still in slavery.

Even so there is hope. you are on the ground floor with no where to go but up. opportunities abound if you can learn to embrace America as your culture, just like every other immigrant and even native american has.

thoughts?

Nobody is in denial that slavery existed in worldwide in most of antiquity. The ancient Romans and Greeks and Egyptians and even ancient China had slavery. Most of the time it was a class issue, other times it was the captured or rival king states after war. Kim Jong Un enslaves prisoners today too. 

That isn't a licence to attempt to mitigate America's history. Blacks in America are still suffering from economic and justice inequality stemming from that history.  "Other people did it" isn't an argument. It still does not excuse white Americans today from facing our horrible history and today's inequities stemming from that history. America cannot claim to lead if we are not going to set a better example for the world.

It is up to whites to understand America was invaded and built on slavery. We cannot change the past, but we should also not ignore it or attempt to gloss it over. 

You "Opportunities abound if you can learn to embrace America as your culture".  And American "culture" has the motto "E-Pluribus Unum", out of many, one. And the word "opportunities" is far too abused by conservatives and wealth. It isn't impossible to move up no, but most people do not become billionaires, famous movie actors, famous comedians, famous musicians or famous sports stars. Most people if lucky manage to pay their bills and save for the future. But our growing pay gap is hurting blacks at a far higher rate than whites.

dude.. please read the OP before you comment. this is not 'other people did it,' argument. this is native Americans to the tune of 2.5 to over 5 million were captured and put into slavery 300+ years before blacks. black people served just over 100 years as slaves, yet do more poorly than the race who served 350 years as slaves to the same united states.

I take it you never learned about the Indian Wars in school.

(June 10, 2020 at 5:36 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: I take it you never learned about the Indian Wars in school.

With the ignorance of his posts and the crappy spelling I would question if he attended school at all.  The evidence of having been educated is slim.

He's asking for businesses Native Americans have burned during riots, and yet when I point out that the white man has spent something in the area of THREE CENTURIES at war (on and off, but still) and ended up being pretty conclusively defeated, their numbers dwindled, and many tribes completely wiped off the face of the earth, and yet somehow that doesn't explain why they don't riot like Black people are doing now.

(June 10, 2020 at 5:44 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: He's asking for businesses Native Americans have burned during riots, and yet when I point out that the white man has spent something in the area of THREE CENTURIES at war (on and off, but still) and ended up being pretty conclusively defeated, their numbers dwindled, and many tribes completely wiped off the face of the earth, and yet somehow that doesn't explain why they don't riot like Black people are doing now.

This is not  a defense of Native Americans over Blacks.

Native American reservations(and I fucking hate that language) which amounts to forced segregation based on white historical power. 

But, Natives even given that, have had far more representation of their own even in white forced segregation. 

So when Native Americans identify with oppression but don't riot or loot, is a fucking bullshit argument. Both are prisons set up by the white man, but with Native segregation which which is what a "reservation" is, at least Natives get to run their own prisons. 

It should not be an argument about how Native Americans or Blacks react to white BULLSHIT, but how whites accept we have been fucking dicks.

I have seen too many stories of minorities of any skin tone, trying to comply and get fucked, or rightfully fighting back and still get fucked.

(June 10, 2020 at 8:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 10, 2020 at 5:44 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: He's asking for businesses Native Americans have burned during riots, and yet when I point out that the white man has spent something in the area of THREE CENTURIES at war (on and off, but still) and ended up being pretty conclusively defeated, their numbers dwindled, and many tribes completely wiped off the face of the earth, and yet somehow that doesn't explain why they don't riot like Black people are doing now.

This is not  a defense of Native Americans over Blacks.

Native American reservations(and I fucking hate that language) which amounts to forced segregation based on white historical power. 

But, Natives even given that, have had far more representation of their own even in white forced segregation. 

So when Native Americans identify with oppression but don't riot or loot, is a fucking bullshit argument. Both are prisons set up by the white man, but with Native segregation which which is what a "reservation" is, at least Natives get to run their own prisons. 

It should not be an argument about how Native Americans or Blacks react to white BULLSHIT, but how whites accept we have been fucking dicks.

I have seen too many stories of minorities of any skin tone, trying to comply and get fucked, or rightfully fighting back and still get fucked.

Your complaints about Native reservations are somewhat out of date. While it was certainly true that reservations were once a form of forced segregation (particularly during periods of forced removal), that is no longer the case. No native is forced to live on a reservation. In fact, the majority of them do not.

Why do you hate the word ‘reservation’? It means land that is ‘reserved’ for natives, and was usually granted by treaty in consultation with the natives themselves (the fairness and honouring of those treaties is another issue entirely).

Boru

(June 10, 2020 at 8:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 10, 2020 at 8:11 pm)Brian37 Wrote: This is not  a defense of Native Americans over Blacks.

Native American reservations(and I fucking hate that language) which amounts to forced segregation based on white historical power. 

But, Natives even given that, have had far more representation of their own even in white forced segregation. 

So when Native Americans identify with oppression but don't riot or loot, is a fucking bullshit argument. Both are prisons set up by the white man, but with Native segregation which which is what a "reservation" is, at least Natives get to run their own prisons. 

It should not be an argument about how Native Americans or Blacks react to white BULLSHIT, but how whites accept we have been fucking dicks.

I have seen too many stories of minorities of any skin tone, trying to comply and get fucked, or rightfully fighting back and still get fucked.

Your complaints about Native reservations are somewhat out of date. While it was certainly true that reservations were once a form of forced segregation (particularly during periods of forced removal), that is no longer the case. No native is forced to live on a reservation. In fact, the majority of them do not.

Why do you hate the word ‘reservation’? It means land that is ‘reserved’ for natives, and was usually granted by treaty in consultation with the natives themselves (the fairness and honouring of those treaties is another issue entirely).

Boru

I am NOT missing history. 

"Reservation" back then was a form of segregation as much as separate black schools and water fountains and bathrooms and busses were with blacks and whites.

But if Drich is going to stupidly ask why Natives today are not rioting or looting it is a complete non sequitur.

Between Blacks an Natives, which whites are still fucking over respectively, Natives still have far more control over what little we whites have left them.

"Reservation" is nothing more than a historical word white history has used to say, "Yea, we stole your land, get over it".

If we were being honest about the word "Reservation" then why didn't white Europeans reserve the land occupied by Natives before we stole it from them?

(June 10, 2020 at 9:36 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 10, 2020 at 8:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Your complaints about Native reservations are somewhat out of date. While it was certainly true that reservations were once a form of forced segregation (particularly during periods of forced removal), that is no longer the case. No native is forced to live on a reservation. In fact, the majority of them do not.

Why do you hate the word ‘reservation’? It means land that is ‘reserved’ for natives, and was usually granted by treaty in consultation with the natives themselves (the fairness and honouring of those treaties is another issue entirely).

Boru

I am NOT missing history. 

"Reservation" back then was a form of segregation as much as separate black schools and water fountains and bathrooms and busses were with blacks and whites.

But if Drich is going to stupidly ask why Natives today are not rioting or looting it is a complete non sequitur.

Between Blacks an Natives, which whites are still fucking over respectively, Natives still have far more control over what little we whites have left them.

"Reservation" is nothing more than a historical word white history has used to say, "Yea, we stole your land, get over it".

If we were being honest about the word "Reservation" then why didn't white Europeans reserve the land occupied by Natives before we stole it from them?

I didn’t say you were ‘missing history’. In fact, I said you were correct about what reservations were. I was just pointing out that reservations today aren’t forced segregation, because no one is forced to live on them. Good thing, since - as I understand it - the conditions on a lot of the reservations are appalling.

I think your comparison with water fountains, etc, is a little off. A better analogy might be the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII.

Boru