At work.

(June 13, 2020 at 5:46 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote:

(June 13, 2020 at 5:44 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: So..... just because a 'Lot' of hominids believe something doesn't actually mean that thing is matching reality or true.

Then you have to demonstrate that anything such like 'Diety' exists before you can work out its properties.

Cheers.

I didn't say that God exists because a lot of people believe in it. Where do you think I said that?

And why do I have to prove such a deity exists? I already believe it does and because it does I am stating what matters morally and why hell may actually be a good thing.

Right here; "..... But considering that most of the world is theistic I'd say he's succeeding...... "

That you belive something is quite nice for you.

However, what we believe and what is true can be two different things.

If you think your diety exists in other states than just your thoughts...... it would thence be upon you to show this is such.

Cheers.

(June 13, 2020 at 5:52 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Right here;  "..... But considering that most of the world is theistic I'd say he's succeeding...... "

That isn't me saying that the fact that most of the world believes in God is evidence that God exists. Why do you think that's me saying that?

At work.

(June 13, 2020 at 5:53 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote:

(June 13, 2020 at 5:52 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Right here;  "..... But considering that most of the world is theistic I'd say he's succeeding...... "

That isn't me saying that the fact that most of the world believes in God is evidence that God exists. Why do you think that's me saying that?

Uhm.... because it is you who typed out those words?

Now, perhaps I am reading those words and understanding a different interpretation. Fair enough.

So.... other than lots of people believing in a diety..... what else is there to indicate any diety(s) exist?

Cheers.

(June 13, 2020 at 5:57 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

(June 13, 2020 at 5:53 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote: That isn't me saying that the fact that most of the world believes in God is evidence that God exists. Why do you think that's me saying that?

Uhm.... because it is you who typed out those words?

No I didn't. I never said it was evidence for God's existence. If you read my posts you won't be able to find me saying that because I didn't say that. That's a strawman. I *don't* think the fact that people believe in God is evidence that God exists. Which is why I never made such a claim. That's not what the claim is.

At work.

(June 13, 2020 at 5:58 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote:

(June 13, 2020 at 5:57 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Uhm.... because it is you who typed out those words?

No I didn't. I never said it was evidence for God's existence. If you read my posts you won't be able to find me saying that because I didn't say that. That's a strawman. I *don't* think the fact that people believe in God is evidence that God exists. Which is why I never made such a claim. That's not what the claim is.

But you did post;

".... But considering that most of the world is theistic I'd say he's succeeding....."

Which, to my reading comprehension, suggests the interpretation of "Because a lot of people believe, therefore..."

Again, I'm happy to be corrected upon your actual meaning in relation to what you're typing.

Cheers.

(June 13, 2020 at 6:08 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

(June 13, 2020 at 5:58 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote: No I didn't. I never said it was evidence for God's existence. If you read my posts you won't be able to find me saying that because I didn't say that. That's a strawman. I *don't* think the fact that people believe in God is evidence that God exists. Which is why I never made such a claim. That's not what the claim is.

But you did post;

".... But considering that most of the world is theistic I'd say he's succeeding....."

Which, to my reading comprehension, suggests the interpretation of "Because a lot of people believe, therefore..."

Again, I'm happy to be corrected upon your actual meaning in relation to what you're typing.

Cheers.

But why did you read that as me giving an argument for God's existence when I never said that I was offering such an argument?

Perhaps it will help if I go back and show you why I said what I said and what it actually means:

(June 13, 2020 at 5:34 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote: I don't think God actually cares that much whether people are convinced or not

Note that here I'm saying that I don't think God actually cares *that much* whether people are convinced that he exists. The *not that much* implies that God must care to *some* degree about that. Now let's continue.

(June 13, 2020 at 5:34 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote: but considering that most of the world is theistic I'd say he's succeeding anyway even when it's not even his priority

So, hopefully now it's clear that I'm saying that the fact that God cares to *some* degree, however little, that people are convinced that he exists is evidenced by the fact that people are *overall* becoming convinced.

Hopefully it's clear that this is an argument for the fact that *because* God exists the fact that people are overall becoming convinced that he exists is evidence that God is succeeding at convincing people.

So, to lay it out more clearly here is what the argument is:

Premise 1: If God exists then he must to *some* degree, however small, care about whether people believe in him or not.

Premise 2: If most people in the world believe in God then God is succeeding at convincing them that he exists.

Premise 3: Most people *do* believe in God.

Conclusion: Therefore God is succeeding at convincing them that he exists.

Note that the conclusion is *not* "therefore God exists" which is why I'm *not* saying that the fact people believe in him means that he exists. In fact, my whole argument already assumes that he exists. My argument is that *if* he exists *and* he cares to some degree whether people are convinced in his existence or not *then* the fact that most people are convinced is evidence that he's succeeding at what he to some degree wants: people to believe in him. Do you see what I was saying now?

Please let me know if writing the argument out like I did above, with premises and conclusion, helped or not. If it helped then I will do it more often.

Most people aren't convinced that your god exists.

(June 13, 2020 at 6:22 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Most people aren't convinced that your god exists.

Yes they are.

At work.

(June 13, 2020 at 6:19 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote:

(June 13, 2020 at 6:08 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: But you did post;

".... But considering that most of the world is theistic I'd say he's succeeding....."

Which, to my reading comprehension, suggests the interpretation of "Because a lot of people believe, therefore..."

Again, I'm happy to be corrected upon your actual meaning in relation to what you're typing.

Cheers.

But why did you read that as me giving an argument for God's existence when I never said that I was offering such an argument?

Perhaps it will help if I go back and show you why I said what I said and what it actually means:

(June 13, 2020 at 5:34 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote: I don't think God actually cares that much whether people are convinced or not

Note that here I'm saying that I don't think God actually cares *that much* whether people are convinced that he exists. The *not that much* implies that God must care to *some* degree about that. Now let's continue.

(June 13, 2020 at 5:34 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote: but considering that most of the world is theistic I'd say he's succeeding anyway even when it's not even his priority

So, hopefully now it's clear that I'm saying that the fact that God cares to *some* degree, however little, that people are convinced that he exists is evidenced by the fact that people are *overall* becoming convinced.

Hopefully it's clear that this is an argument for the fact that *because* God exists the fact that people are overall becoming convinced that he exists is evidence that God is succeeding at convincing people.

So, to lay it out more clearly here is what the argument is:

Premise 1: If God exists then he must to *some* degree, however small, care about whether people believe in him or not.

Premise 2: If most people in the world believe in God then God is succeeding at convincing them that he exists.

Premise 3: Most people *do* believe in God.

Conclusion: Therefore God is succeeding at convincing them that he exists.

Note that the conclusion is *not* "therefore God exists" which is why I'm *not* saying that the fact people believe in him means that he exists. In fact, my whole argument already assumes that he exists. My argument is that *if* he exists *and* he cares to some degree whether people are convinced in his existence or not *then* the fact that most people are convinced is evidence that he's succeeding at what he to some degree wants: people to believe in him. Do you see what I was saying now?

Please let me know if writing the argument out like I did above, with premises and conclusion, helped or not. If it helped then I will do it more often.

Yes. Thank you indeed for expanding and explaining your point.

I do grok where it is your post/thoughts were comming from.

Much cheers!

Do you think any such thing as 'Diety(s)' exist?

(For disclosure, I see nothing to indicate any dietys exist and every concept so far presented in regards to any diety(s) do not match the reality that I am aware of).

(June 13, 2020 at 6:22 am)UtilitarianDeist Wrote:

(June 13, 2020 at 6:22 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Most people aren't convinced that your god exists.

Yes they are.

Define god.