(July 30, 2020 at 5:45 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: One thing to note is that of the major world religions, Judaism and Christianity (at least until the 19th century) were the two kindest to consumption of alcohol. In Christianity, it's largely been used in moderation, either in Communion or for everyday life (in no small part because the water wasn't always safe, to the point where, by the 18th century, many believed that water was bad for your health). In Judaism, there's actually an commandment for Purim that one should drink "until one cannot tell 'blessed be Mordecai' from 'cursed be Haman.'" I strongly suspect that it's unlikely that they'd drink non-alcoholic grape juice.

And then, after looking at the religious nuances of alcohol, I figured out "Oh, I could have looked up the history of non-alcoholic grape juice and saved myself some trouble." So, I did. And it turns out that non-alcoholic grape juice was only made a viable drink in 1869 after Thomas Branwell Welch discovered a means of pasteurising grapes to make sure they don't ferment and turn into wine. Since 1869 was long before the time of Christ, therefore, it's virtually impossible for the Jews to have been huge consumers of non-alcoholic grape juice, unless they were really  into wasting good grapes.

Alternately, you could have simply read post #5 in this thread and saved yourself even the minor inconvenience of a web search.

You’re welcome.

Boru

If he was like his followers - he drank whatever he liked - as long as noone from the congregation was watching........

(July 30, 2020 at 6:37 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: If he was like his followers - he drank whatever he liked - as long as noone from the congregation was watching........

Well - at that "Last Supper"  the whole congregation was watching - 

 - and the whole congretation enjoyed that real wine as well. 

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(July 30, 2020 at 7:30 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: He really had no choice BUT to drink wine. Left to its own devices, grape juice ferments itself into wine very quickly. The pasteurization process that stops fermentation wasn’t invented until the 1860s.

Boru

So it is, so it is! 

jesus drank wine, and gave wine to others to drink. there is nothing in the bible that says drinking alcohol is a sin. the bible only mentions drunkeness as a sin

Jesus was partial to the blue milk of Tatooine.

(July 30, 2020 at 7:46 pm)masoni Wrote: jesus drank wine, and gave wine to others to drink. there is nothing in the bible that says drinking alcohol is a sin. the bible only mentions drunkeness as a sin

First bit’s true, the second one isn’t. There are multiple verses which condemn the consumption of alcohol, irrespective of drunkenness.

Boru

(July 30, 2020 at 8:26 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 30, 2020 at 7:46 pm)masoni Wrote: jesus drank wine, and gave wine to others to drink. there is nothing in the bible that says drinking alcohol is a sin. the bible only mentions drunkeness as a sin

First bit’s true, the second one isn’t. There are multiple verses which condemn the consumption of alcohol, irrespective of drunkenness.

Boru

scripture does not necessarily forbid a christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol.
alcohol, consumed in small quantities, is neither harmful nor addictive.

(July 30, 2020 at 8:50 pm)masoni Wrote:

(July 30, 2020 at 8:26 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: First bit’s true, the second one isn’t. There are multiple verses which condemn the consumption of alcohol, irrespective of drunkenness.

Boru

scripture does not necessarily forbid a christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol.
alcohol, consumed in small quantities, is neither harmful nor addictive.

You’ve reversed it. Now your first statement is incorrect and the second one is true. Again, there are multiple verses in the Bible which forbid the consumption of any amount of wine.

Boru

My dad went to Bible College in his youth, and they had guest speakers come in and give sermons sometimes. On one such occasion, the speaker was the head of the college. She gave a sermon about Jesus turning water into wine, but had to make it clear to everyone that "he didn't turn it into real wine though because Jesus wouldn't turn water into something that makes men beat their wives."

And he wonders why I'm an atheist now. 🤷‍♀️

(To be clear: my dad definitely doesn't hold the same view of alcohol = bad; he gave me a proper education in craft beer before I flew the nest. But like, yeah. Those Christian bastards will think of anything to uphold their own version of Jesus as "The Way.")

Jesus hung out with men.  He was into the hard stuff, if you know what I mean.  

Abstinence is for those who don't know when to quit.  Like the bigtime party guy buddy who had to chose between Jesus and drinking himself to death.  Now he's all about church.  So in the story, Jesus filled that guy's cup with grape juice.

It's the dudes who can't maintain that make it weird for everyone.  Put that in your sermon and mount it.