Perhaps he should behave better. Or perhaps there's a justification for them. Either way God's existence isn't dependent on how good or evil his designs are.

(March 7, 2021 at 11:36 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Perhaps he should behave better. Or perhaps there's a justification for them. Either way God's existence isn't dependent on how good or evil his designs are.

Supposedly one of his designs...man...came up with atomic bombs, guns, and electric chairs.  None of those things would exist were it not for your god.  What a swell diety.

Again, God's existence isn't dependent on his goodness. Perhaps you can argue the evilness of God in a separate thread. It's a bit unrelated to this one.

(March 7, 2021 at 11:45 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Again, God's existence isn't dependent on his goodness. Perhaps you can argue the evilness of God in a separate thread. It's a bit unrelated to this one.

But you are arguing for intelligent design and no less by a perfect being, so if a design is not intelligent and is stupid in many ways, then it's not by the intelligent designer but by blind nature.

An evil god is indistinguishable from simple cruel nature and is thus meaningless, And if theist can provide no reason that a god allows evil they cannot pretend there is one.

(March 7, 2021 at 11:03 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(March 7, 2021 at 10:49 pm)possibletarian Wrote: We create things for a purpose, even if that purpose is just for fun.  What use are destructive things like  tsunamis, earthquakes  and volcanos to a deity that could have easily made a world without them, especially one created just for us.

Guns, electric chairs, and atomic bombs.

You are making my point for me, all those are designed for a purpose to do a specific task, and we can follow the evolution throughout human history of how we got to that point, stick & Stone to arrows, to bolts, to guns, and we can follow the discoveries that allowed their development, they have always had a purpose and were designed that way.

God presumably had us in mind when it made the earth, if we are to be allowed to describe it as a can do anything, loving, being, we can expect its designs follow through on that, instead what we see is a planet that will only be suitable to us for a tiny fraction of it's life, much of it barely a suitable habitat in a solar system that will itself destroy us.  We see destructive events that wipe life out, diseases that kill whole swathes of humanity (and are only stemmed by human intelligence) natural disaster that wipes out thousands in a  single event.

If its purpose was to design an earth that seems not ideal for purpose and un-designed, then kudos to it, it did a great job, but then how can we tell the difference ?

If you had purchased the earth off the shelf in a god shop, advertised as an ideally designed place for humans to live in, you would return it as faulty

(March 7, 2021 at 11:45 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Again, God's existence isn't dependent on his goodness. Perhaps you can argue the evilness of God in a separate thread. It's a bit unrelated to this one.

Sorry, Breezy, you don't get to tell me where I can and can't post.

(March 8, 2021 at 5:45 am)possibletarian Wrote: If its purpose was to design an earth that seems not ideal for purpose and un-designed, then kudos to it, it did a great job, but then how can we tell the difference?

If you had purchased the earth off the shelf in a god shop, advertised as an ideally designed place for humans to live in, you would return it as faulty

(The atomic bomb illustrates that destruction can be purposeful and designed. If that wasn't your initial point I retract my argument.)

To the latter, I think that in agreeing that Earth is faulty and needs returning you've echoed the Christian narrative. Not only does the story claim that Earth broke down at the Fall and got tossed inside out at the Flood, but there's continual references to restoration and a New Earth to come.

Unfortunately, the christian narrative was never about fixing anything. It's always been about ensuring a uniform thinking society, and look how well that ended up in Brave New World.

(March 7, 2021 at 11:45 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Again, God's existence isn't dependent on his goodness. Perhaps you can argue the evilness of God in a separate thread. It's a bit unrelated to this one.

It would depend on the god.  Sure, an incompetent and/or evil god wouldn't be bothered by it's design being incompetent or evil...and the cultists of that god would not have an issue on their hands.

It's not a problem for entire pantheons of gods...but it's quite an issue for abrahamics. From the other end of it, though, we can say with certainty that if there were some evil god, he must be incompetent. Things aren't as bad as they could be.