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**brewer** · September 22, 2021 at 11:38 am

(September 21, 2021 at 1:43 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Well that's simple enough. Because my religious beliefs guide my life, whereas my more general opinions are just some trifling shit.

Bullshit. Biology, society, personal economics, your boss,........ those have way more impact on "guiding your life" day to day.

Your religious beliefs are simply your mental fantasy play time.

**The Grand Nudger**

I feel like somebody competent should step in to challenge this. Are your analogs mental fantasy play time?

Some people misrepresent the character of their own beliefs, granted - but is an objection that necessarily leverages this mischaracterization compelling?

Ahriman · (This post was last modified: September 22, 2021 at 11:59 am by Ahriman.)

(September 21, 2021 at 7:38 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(September 21, 2021 at 1:14 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I don't care about my beliefs being rationally grounded because, who said they needed to be?

Why don’t you care about being rational?

Holding irrational beliefs has served me well so far. I have no reason to adopt a hard-line rationale for everything I do or believe.

**The Grand Nudger** · September 22, 2021 at 12:08 pm

Did you just say you had no reason......

**LadyForCamus** · September 22, 2021 at 12:34 pm

This stuff writes itself.

Angrboda · September 22, 2021 at 12:46 pm

(September 22, 2021 at 11:58 am)Ahriman Wrote:
(September 21, 2021 at 7:38 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Why don’t you care about being rational?
Holding irrational beliefs has served me well so far. I have no reason to adopt a hard-line rationale for everything I do or believe.

How would you know, given that you seem rather pre-disposed to believing irrational things. What makes you think you're not simply fooling yourself? You seem especially good at it.

Spongebob · September 22, 2021 at 12:53 pm

(September 22, 2021 at 11:58 am)Ahriman Wrote: Holding irrational beliefs has served me well so far. I have no reason to adopt a hard-line rationale for everything I do or believe.

No one does, but there are certainly aspects to civilized life that demand to be approached with reason and rational thinking. Religion isn't one, but a whole lot of the rest is. If you do approach the majority of your life without rational thinking, you are bound to make some huge mistakes. And sometimes mistakes can be a good thing, no doubt. But sometimes...not so good. I suggest caution.

We could get into the details but that is usually when you chicken out and run from the conversation, which btw, can be a rational thing to do if the conversation is making you uncomfortable, which I assume it is.

**The Grand Nudger**

I'd say that religion is an area that demands much more reason than others. We're talking abut a thing that will compel people to organize their governments for effect. People can be and are, reasonably religious. The one's who are something else are either misrepresenting themselves, or are so of choice.

Spongebob · September 22, 2021 at 2:00 pm

(September 22, 2021 at 1:31 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I'd say that religion is an area that demands much more reason than others. We're talking abut a thing that will compel people to organize their governments for effect. People can be and are, reasonably religious. The one's who are something else are either misrepresenting themselves, or are so of choice.

That seems debatable. Should one's religious views be rational? I'm not sure some religious tenets are rational. They have an internal logic to them, sure, but some promote some pretty profoundly counterintuitive concepts. Or should it just be rational/critical thinking that leads one to accept a particular religious modality? I think the rocks are slippery here.

Regarding government. Sure, religion has had a major say in how some governments form, but that isn't necessary. It's something humans tend to do, though I would argue it's the one thing you should leave out of government.

**The Grand Nudger**

(September 22, 2021 at 2:00 pm)Spongebob Wrote:
(September 22, 2021 at 1:31 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I'd say that religion is an area that demands much more reason than others. We're talking abut a thing that will compel people to organize their governments for effect. People can be and are, reasonably religious. The one's who are something else are either misrepresenting themselves, or are so of choice.

That seems debatable. Should one's religious views be rational? I'm not sure some religious tenets are rational. They have an internal logic to them, sure, but some promote some pretty profoundly counterintuitive concepts. Or should it just be rational/critical thinking that leads one to accept a particular religious modality? I think the rocks are slippery here.

Regarding government. Sure, religion has had a major say in how some governments form, but that isn't necessary. It's something humans tend to do, though I would argue it's the one thing you should leave out of government.

Well...let's discard the should.

Can religious views be rational? I think they can. Insomuch as any given religious view is irrational, or a-rational, that's not a requirement of a religious view. That's a choice that the specific religious individual has made.

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