(September 26, 2021 at 12:52 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(September 26, 2021 at 11:14 am)Angrboda Wrote: Because I'm a bitch.  You?

I' m a cynical son of a bitch.


Did you miss that part?

Naw, you're just a bitch.

Quote:Far more people are killed by other people over drugs, alcohol or sex EVERY DAY - than are killed by police EVERY YEAR.

But nobody seens to think those things are a problem...

Wow, this is the same logic covid denialists use to oppose any action against the pandemic, and is OLB seriously comparing those things to a government-sponsored organization. It's not how many are killed it's who's doing the killing in this case.

(September 26, 2021 at 10:17 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Far more people are killed by other people over drugs, alcohol or sex EVERY DAY - than are killed by police EVERY YEAR.

But nobody seens to think those things are a problem...

There are plenty of people who are aware of this and it is a very serious problem and programs exist to address it.  Just because it doesn't make the news doesn't mean no one cares about it.

However, there's no reason to obfuscate the two issues.  The police are supposed to be trusted protectors of the public (it say so right on their vehicle).  Too often they not only fail to protect the public but are the public's worst enemy.  And there are numerous recorded cases of this; it's by no means an anomaly.  There are even retired police officers who have corroborated it.  People don't want to crucify good police officers; they want to get rid of the corrupt ones.

I liken the issue to parental abuse.  If a child is abused by someone outside the family, that's really bad.  But if the father or mother abuses their own children, the reaction most people have is that is far worse because the parents are supposed to be the children's protectors.

(September 26, 2021 at 10:17 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Far more people are killed by other people over drugs, alcohol or sex EVERY DAY - than are killed by police EVERY YEAR.

But nobody seens to think those things are a problem...

Because it's supposed to be the police's fucking job to protect and serve the people and not find some flimsy pretext to kill them? Also, it's generally expected that the people who kill each other over drugs, alcohol, and sex are expected to face legal consequences.

I was going to ask how you can't figure this out, but then I remembered you're basically either our resident Timothy McVeigh surrogate or pathologically addicted to trying to own the libs by any means necessary, even if your arguments don't make any fucking sense.

Well, Kent Hovids going back to jail for 30 days. This time for domestic abuse ......What a surprise 

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021...-violence/

(September 26, 2021 at 8:00 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(September 26, 2021 at 10:17 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Far more people are killed by other people over drugs, alcohol or sex EVERY DAY - than are killed by police EVERY YEAR.

But nobody seens to think those things are a problem...

Because it's supposed to be the police's fucking job to protect and serve the people and not find some flimsy pretext to kill them? Also, it's generally expected that the people who kill each other over drugs, alcohol, and sex are expected to face legal consequences.

I was going to ask how you can't figure this out, but then I remembered you're basically either our resident Timothy McVeigh surrogate or pathologically addicted to trying to own the libs by any means necessary, even if your arguments don't make any fucking sense.

Or far more likely - unjustified police shootings happen - but very rarely.....

But left wingnut whackadoodles like to pretend every cop that straps on a gun is out looking to snuff some little angel.......

....

Fact - you are statistically FAR more likely to be murdered by a friend, family member.or neighbor than by a cop.... You can' t dispute this as a fact.....


But when you' re in deep shit - you call the cops.....


Hypocrite....

Quote:Or far more likely - unjustified police shootings happen - but very rarely.....

Irrelevant whether or not we should deal with the issue 

Quote:But left wingnut whackadoodles like to pretend every cop that straps on a gun is out looking to snuff some little angel.......

That's a ridiculous strawman 

Quote:Fact - you are statistically FAR more likely to be murdered by a friend, family member.or neighbor than by a cop.... You can' t dispute this as a fact.....

And there is that Covid denier logic again. More people die due to X than covid so we should just ignore it. The same logic and the  same flaw in said logic.

Quote:But when you' re in deep shit - you call the cops.....


Hypocrite....

Ah yes, the tired you can't criticize the police and acknowledge they are a necessary evil. Because false dichotomies are fun

And the problem is that when unjustified killings by cops do happen, they tend to be punished with a slap on the wrist, if that. And Derek Chauvin's 22 1/2 years for what basically amounted to strangling George Floyd for 9 1/2 minutes because of his fear of being inside a cop car is actually the longest sentence I've actually heard being given to a cop who killed someone on the job who wasn't actually a threat to them. And it only happened at all because there was a huge outcry over it.

As for whether or not the person's an angel, frankly, whether or not they were a good person is irrelevant to the issue. The issue is: was the person an actual threat or not? Was he an active threat to anyone at that moment? No? Then killing them isn't justified. And that's the federal standard for this sort of shit. Not whether or not the victim is a good person. Just whether or not he's an active threat to anyone. He could be an ex-con with felons on his record, and if he's not currently a demonstrably active threat to people, killing him is still unjustified. And here's a meme I made to answer precisely that assumption (under hide tags as per the recommendation of Valk):


The fact that you're more likely to be killed by anyone else than a cop is indisputable. The thing is, some people think the cops should at least try and follow the law and not get away with shit like that. Some of us don't think the cops should be held to a far lower moral standard just because they're vested with some power by the state. And some of us think it isn't too much to ask that if a cop does an unjustified killing, they should be given the same sort of prosecution that someone without a badge would get.

(September 26, 2021 at 7:31 pm)Spongebob Wrote:

(September 26, 2021 at 10:17 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Far more people are killed by other people over drugs, alcohol or sex EVERY DAY - than are killed by police EVERY YEAR.

But nobody seens to think those things are a problem...

There are plenty of people who are aware of this and it is a very serious problem and programs exist to address it.  Just because it doesn't make the news doesn't mean no one cares about it.

However, there's no reason to obfuscate the two issues.  The police are supposed to be trusted protectors of the public (it say so right on their vehicle).  Too often they not only fail to protect the public but are the public's worst enemy.  And there are numerous recorded cases of this; it's by no means an anomaly.  There are even retired police officers who have corroborated it.  People don't want to crucify good police officers; they want to get rid of the corrupt ones.

I liken the issue to parental abuse.  If a child is abused by someone outside the family, that's really bad.  But if the father or mother abuses their own children, the reaction most people have is that is far worse because the parents are supposed to be the children's protectors.

The reaction people tend to have over parental abuse of children is turning a blind eye. What goes on behind closed doors is that family's business. It's worse when local police officials are guilty of the same. I'll not argue it...I lived it. It fucked me up for life...and no one gave a shit and no one helped.

Walk in those shoes and tell me all about it.

I'll add that even when I took Criminal Justice classes, the only abuse of children that mattered was sexual. There are lots of other kinds of abuse that are horribly damaging.

(September 26, 2021 at 9:00 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: 1. Or far more likely - unjustified police shootings happen - but very rarely.....

2. But left wingnut whackadoodles like to pretend every cop that straps on a gun is out looking to snuff some little angel.......

3.  Fact - you are statistically FAR more likely to be murdered by a friend, family member.or neighbor than by a cop.... You can' t dispute this as a fact.....

4.  But when you' re in deep shit - you call the cops.....

Hypocrite....

1.  I would agree that its likely pretty uncommon for police to unjustly kill someone, but the problem is that we can't actually know this because the police are the ones in control of the records and have a very heavy thumb on the scales.  They also have some powerful laws in their favor which protects them in most circumstances from investigations and litigation stemming from their conduct.  So unjustified shootings could be uncommon but we don't actually know this with any certainty.  And we have evidence of far too many unjust police actions to feel good about the issue thanks to cell phone videos.

Interestingly, there's a youtube channel where a guy instructs people who carry how to behave if/when police arrive at the scene where they had to shoot someone.  One piece of advice is to put your gun away before police arrive because any person the police see holding a weapon or even with a holstered weapon who isn't in uniform will immediately be considered a threat.  This is pretty clear evidence that police are literally one breath away from shooting anyone holding a weapon, guilty or not.

2.  Who?  Who is this you are talking about?  Do you have statistics?  I don't know a single "liberal" who fits this description but my own father and brother in law (neither remotely liberal) have had enough experience that they are extremely wary of the police.  Why make up vague boogey men just to argue?  It serves only to make your argument seem more potent but it's easy to see through and you aren't fooling anyone.  Liberals aren't demanding anything unreasonable; just police who aren't criminals themselves.

3.  Friend is probably not likely, but family member or an acquaintance, yes.  Those statistics are no secret nor new information.  However, there are equally shocking statistics regarding how often minor traffic stops result in police shooting and even killing people and not because those people threatened the police.  What you seem to be doing here is making excuses for these cases.  No one disputes the fact that police aren't walking down the street mowing people down, but does that mean the problem doesn't exist?  Does that mean we should look the other way?  Does it mean the people police kill unjustly don't matter?  To the people who loved those victims, it mattered a lot.

4.  Absolutely and rightly so.  That's the intended function of the police, to protect law abiding citizens.  But in many black communities this is no longer the case.  Calling the police can mean a death penalty for innocent people, even the one who called the police.  Is that OK with you?  Do you support this behavior?  Do you want the cops to kill innocent people?  If not, then I would expect you wouldn't make excuses for them.

The whole of your argument seems to be that we should all just shut up about police brutality because it doesn't happen often enough to matter.  With a side of start complaining about criminals killing innocent people.  Well, sure we all want criminals brought to justice but you know they don't drive around in vehicles identifying them as such and they don't have the weight of the law when they knock on your door.  We are compelled to obey the police because they can and will shoot people with impunity.  That's what makes it all the more terrifying.  Even in my extremely quiet and calm city, we've had multiple incidents of police brutality and in most cases the police get little to no punishment.  One sheriff was just recently convicted of corruption over a decades long career, but he got only 2 years.  This kind of thing does not inspire confidence in our legal system and a broken justice system means justice is less likely to be served and the entire system has to spend resources defending corrupt officers.  It's a death spiral and the moment you say "it's no big deal" is the moment you become part of the problem.  To me that's a truly hypocritical thing.

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(September 26, 2021 at 9:49 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: The reaction people tend to have over parental abuse of children is turning a blind eye.  What goes on behind closed doors is that family's business.  It's worse when local police officials are guilty of the same.  I'll not argue it...I lived it.  It fucked me up for life...and no one gave a shit and no one helped.  

Walk in those shoes and tell me all about it.

I'll add that even when I took Criminal Justice classes, the only abuse of children that mattered was sexual.  There are lots of other kinds of abuse that are horribly damaging.

What I'm thinking about are cases where a mother drowns all 5 of her children.  That's a pretty shocking scene and all the worse because it was their mother.