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Astreja · October 5, 2021 at 3:16 pm

(October 5, 2021 at 2:13 pm)gracerutherford Wrote: Because He is a fair and just God, He must give punishment to those who deserve it.

Um, no, Grace, that's not how "godding" works. A deity doesn't have to do anything at all.

And there is absolutely no justification whatever for eternal punishment. Zero. No exceptions, ever. Any entity that would condemn a sentient being to never-ending punishment is infinitely evil.

vulcanlogician · October 5, 2021 at 4:06 pm

(October 5, 2021 at 2:13 pm)gracerutherford Wrote: What's an example of something God does that isn't considered benevolent? We can use the words benevolent and good interchangeably here, since they mean the same thing. How would you define "good," as the opposite of evil?

Some people define good as creating or causing pleasure/happiness, and (inversely) preventing suffering, pain, and unhappiness. It's not so easy a thing to define good once you start trying.

Quote:If God is good, then is the opposite of evil. As described in the Bible, God hates evil. Because He is a fair and just God, He must give punishment to those who deserve it. However, He is also a gracious God and offers second chances.

Evil hates evil, too. Hating evil doesn't make you good. Maybe the second chances thing... but I'd argue that you'd need to be consistent on that to be considered good for it. HOW many times does one have to look back before they are turned into a pillar of salt? What about not offering everything you own to Paul's cult? How many times can you do that before you're stricken dead?

Quote:And how does God not fit into your vision of what good is?

Others have mentioned it. The eternal suffering thing. I agree with their assessment.

Abaddon_ire · October 5, 2021 at 4:31 pm

(October 3, 2021 at 5:33 pm)Ahriman Wrote:
(October 3, 2021 at 5:30 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Then you have not read your daft book. It is not only full of absurdities, it is full of evil acts all sponsored by god.

Absurdities first.

God makes a mud man and afterwards makes a rib woman which explains why men chave one less rib that women. Snakes can talk. So can donkeys. Bats are birds. Noah built a ship on which he fit 2-7 of every species of animal. There was not room for them all, nor any way to migrate to Noah, nor any way to build a wooden boat that size that could possibly survive, no provision to feed them, no provision to deal with their poop ( don't forget, the ark had a single window) plus there is not enough water anyway. god is unable to people who have iron chariots because...why? god moons moses for some reason

Then you get the list of cruel and immoral things that "god" supports. Slavery, incest, genocide, human sacrifice, injustice, subjugation of women, abortion (oddly), slaughter of innocent infants. theft and more besides.

If you return, you are going to have to explain why you think these are moral acts as described in the magic book. And "god says so in the bible" is not a sufficient answer.
You're reading way too far into it.

How? It is what your magic book says. One does not need to "read into it" when even a surface skim shows bible god to be evil.

Ahriman · October 5, 2021 at 4:34 pm

(October 5, 2021 at 4:31 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:
(October 3, 2021 at 5:33 pm)Ahriman Wrote: You're reading way too far into it.

How? It is what your magic book says. One does not need to "read into it" when even a surface skim shows bible god to be evil.

God didn't do anything evil in the Bible, nor does He ever do anything evil.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: October 5, 2021 at 4:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

You've already indicated that you don't read into it. It, being magic book. The god of magic book engages in an endless parade of evil.....do you wish to insist that this is an issue, or do you wish to maintain that no matter what magic book says..it isn't?

FWIW, I think that the latter position is both theologically and rationally consistent. You just have to decide whether or not you're going to take it.

~~R00tKiT~~ · (This post was last modified: October 5, 2021 at 5:03 pm by R00tKiT.)

(October 5, 2021 at 3:16 pm)Astreja Wrote: And there is absolutely no justification whatever for eternal punishment. Zero. No exceptions, ever.

This is a negative assertion. In general, negative assertions can't be proven. But who knows? You can try.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: October 5, 2021 at 5:09 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

They can be, and this one is pretty simple to discuss. Go ahead and offer anything, absolutely anything, that you think offers the proper application of eternal retribution?

Maybe you put your lips around my penis once, but how does that extend to being punished forever for it?

Astreja · October 5, 2021 at 9:51 pm

(October 5, 2021 at 5:03 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:
(October 5, 2021 at 3:16 pm)Astreja Wrote: And there is absolutely no justification whatever for eternal punishment. Zero. No exceptions, ever.

This is a negative assertion. In general, negative assertions can't be proven. But who knows? You can try.

Give me an example of anything, anything at all, that you think merits eternal torture. Show your work. Explain to me the necessity and justice of such a barbaric punishment. Until you can do that to my satisfaction, I will continue to view a hell-utilizing god as a god of infinite evil.

GUBU · (This post was last modified: October 6, 2021 at 8:57 am by GUBU.)

(October 2, 2021 at 12:51 am)gracerutherford Wrote: There is insurmountable evidence proving the validity of the Bible. .

[citation needed]

There is, in fact, no evidence from outside the bible to show that what is written in the bible is true. In fact no serious historian of the periods covered by the bible stories use it as a basis or evidence of their research.

(October 2, 2021 at 1:06 am)gracerutherford Wrote: I have some questions that need to be answered. Your claims are that the Bible is unreliable. Now, if it is a true source completely, then of course we would have to come to the conclusion that God is a benevolent Creator. Because that is not your conclusion, it means that this is one of your supporting premises.

What aspects of the Bible are false? Can you name any example in which there is a contradiction between the contents of the Bible and another verified historical source? Some people mention mistakes or conflicts within the Bible. Here's a reminder: We, as people, are imperfect and do not know everything. It is always very possible that our interpretation of something (like the Bible) is wrong and not what it actually means. So, if there is a "contradiction" in the Bible between a couple things that it says... prove to me that the said contradiction isn't just your misinterpretation.

The description of Pontius Pilate in the bible is a complete falsehood. Firstly, in reality he was a decisive judge who never vacillated and would not hesitate to order a person's death under Roman law. Secondly he was not stationed in Iudaea at any time where Yeshua could have been active, Pilate was in Iudaea from c17CE to c25CE. Thirdly he never held the title of prefect as described in the bible. All this is amply supported by archaeological and documentary evidence.

Thus we have a biography in the bible of one of the two central actors in the crucifiction myth that is made from a tissue of lies.

Gwaithmir · October 6, 2021 at 8:58 am

(October 5, 2021 at 4:34 pm)Ahriman Wrote: God didn't do anything evil in the Bible, nor does He ever do anything evil.

Even a cursory reading of the Book of Job puts paid to that idea. Dodgy

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