(October 12, 2021 at 11:03 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Oh god, another slavery revisionist.  Here to harangue us about our morals.

Why is it always the same constellation of shit with you people?  God do a lil typo when he was scribbling on your hearts?

Exodus 21:16 “Now one who kidnaps someone, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall certainly be put to death.

So there is a clear distinction here that kidnapping and selling/buying people is a capital offense. So now, as we read the rest of what Moses wrote about owning slaves in the later books, this would be the assumed context under which buying/selling slaves was immoral. But there are other contexts, like selling yourself into slavery to pay a debt.

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(October 12, 2021 at 11:38 am)ayost Wrote:

(October 12, 2021 at 10:49 am)ayost Wrote: Fair enough to your first sentence. I can see that you're trying to have a standard and apply it objectively. That standard only works when people like you and I are policing each other. Once an crazy dictator comes along the system gets dicey. Obviously, your standards assume not a crazy dictator, haha. Unless you're actually Kim Jong-un and I don't know it, haha.

I think we can agree it's an abuse of the Bible in your second sentence. I don't think we should use this kind of argument because you and I know the difference. For example, I don't fault atheists because Jeffrey Dahmer used atheism to validate eating people. Clearly that's an abuse of atheism.


It was definitely limited by law, so it could not be indefinite.

(October 12, 2021 at 11:52 am)ayost Wrote:

(October 12, 2021 at 11:03 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Oh god, another slavery revisionist.  Here to harangue us about our morals.

Why is it always the same constellation of shit with you people?  God do a lil typo when he was scribbling on your hearts?

Exodus 21:16  “Now one who kidnaps someone, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall certainly be put to death.

Quote:So now, kill all the boys, as well as every woman who has had relations with a man, but spare for yourselves every girl who has never had relations with a man.

Quote:So there is a clear distinction here that kidnapping and selling/buying people is a capital offense. So now, as we read the rest of what Moses wrote about owning slaves in the later books, this would be the assumed context under which buying/selling slaves was immoral. But there are other contexts, like selling yourself into slavery to pay a debt.

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Here, go ask a jew, and stop littering the boards with this degenerate filth.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article...e-slavery/

(October 12, 2021 at 11:52 am)ayost Wrote: Exodus 21:16  “Now one who kidnaps someone, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall certainly be put to death.

So there is a clear distinction here that kidnapping and selling/buying people is a capital offense. So now, as we read the rest of what Moses wrote about owning slaves in the later books, this would be the assumed context under which buying/selling slaves was immoral. But there are other contexts, like selling yourself into slavery to pay a debt.

There's also a clear distinction between those kinds of slaves who are paying off debts and those who are non-Israelites. And, hell, maybe those laws in Leviticus may have been progressive in their time. But anyone who looks at that and sees a moral standard that holds up today is bonkers.

Slavery used to be a fact of life. It is no longer a fact of life. We have (nearly) rid the world of it. Slavery is one of the worst evils to ever have existed. Your "morally perfect" holy book fails to recognize that.

I'm sure someone has pointed this out, but "slave of Christ" is a metaphor. It simply means that you want to serve Christ and attend to his desires as a slave would a master.

But this has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of enslaving someone. Because being a "slave of Christ" is VOLUNTARY.

You aren't forced into it. You aren't subjected to beatings and abuse. Your children aren't taken away from you and sold.

Hello!? It's just a metaphor.

(October 12, 2021 at 11:52 am)ayost Wrote: So now, as we read the rest of what Moses wrote about owning slaves in the later books, this would be the assumed context under which buying/selling slaves was immoral. But there are other contexts, like selling yourself into slavery to pay a debt.

Especially the context of newborn children having to pay their own debt to their slaveowner

Quote:When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, “I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,” then his master shall bring him to God, and ... he shall serve him for life.
Exodus 21:2–10

Not to mention that "serve him for life" bit that comes as blackmail if a man wants to be with his family.

@ayost

How can you value the continuation of the species if you don’t value the the experiences of the individual members of that species? That’s a wholly self-refuting argument.

FWIW, bc I hate to see you guys waste your time, I scroll past every post except procaracas without even reading it.

(October 12, 2021 at 11:52 am)ayost Wrote:

(October 12, 2021 at 11:03 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Oh god, another slavery revisionist.  Here to harangue us about our morals.

Why is it always the same constellation of shit with you people?  God do a lil typo when he was scribbling on your hearts?

Exodus 21:16  “Now one who kidnaps someone, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall certainly be put to death.

So there is a clear distinction here that kidnapping and selling/buying people is a capital offense.

Wrong.

Leviticus 25:44

Quote:Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

Read your magic book.

(October 12, 2021 at 11:52 am)ayost Wrote: So now, as we read the rest of what Moses wrote about owning slaves in the later books, this would be the assumed context under which buying/selling slaves was immoral.

Nope. God commands the buying and selling of slaves. It's right there.

(October 12, 2021 at 11:52 am)ayost Wrote: But there are other contexts, like selling yourself into slavery to pay a debt.

Called it. "indentured servitude" turned up. "indentured servitude" is immoral as well as slavery.

(October 12, 2021 at 12:16 pm)ayost Wrote: FWIW, bc I hate to see you guys waste your time, I scroll past every post except procaracas without even reading it.

Poca is a thoughtful guy. You have good taste.

(October 12, 2021 at 7:52 am)ayost Wrote:

(October 12, 2021 at 6:07 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The trouble with expecting to Abrahamic god to ‘get morality right’ is twofold:

-If God freely determines what constitutes moral behaviour, then morality is arbitrary and God can change it on a whim. Since we can do that ourselves, God serves no ultimate moral purpose.

-If morality emanates from God due to his intrinsically moral nature, he’s doing a rotten job of leading by example. How can we be expected to follow the moral precepts of a god who, according to those same precepts, behaves immorally?

Boru

Google will answer this for you.

Well, that’s lazy even by your god’s standards. Is that why you’re here? Is that what He inspired and instructed you to do? Come into a den of atheists and just tell everyone to “Google it?” 

(October 12, 2021 at 12:16 pm)ayost Wrote: FWIW, bc I hate to see you guys waste your time, I scroll past every post except procaracas without even reading it.

I thought you were only talking to Nudger.