I can abstractly hypothesize meaning, but I don't really feel its presence or its absence.

(October 27, 2021 at 9:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(October 26, 2021 at 10:28 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Well for one thing, they're the kind of beliefs that not many people have. They're not just some canned shit.

The number of people who believe or don’t believe a proposition has no bearing on its truth. That’s a logical fallacy.

Who said anything about truth? I was just explaining why my beliefs are special.

(October 27, 2021 at 10:58 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(October 27, 2021 at 9:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: The number of people who believe or don’t believe a proposition has no bearing on its truth. That’s a logical fallacy.

Who said anything about truth? I was just explaining why my beliefs are special.

So, just to clarify:

You don’t care about whether or not your beliefs are true, but you think they’re important because they’re unique, and anyone else should care about them
because…why again?

(October 27, 2021 at 11:05 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(October 27, 2021 at 10:58 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Who said anything about truth? I was just explaining why my beliefs are special.

So, just to clarify:

You don’t care about whether or not your beliefs are true, but you think they’re important because they’re unique, and anyone else should care about them
because…why again?

Care or don't care. I just thought people might want a view point that wasn't the same old tired shit that always gets discussed.

(October 27, 2021 at 11:08 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(October 27, 2021 at 11:05 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, just to clarify:

You don’t care about whether or not your beliefs are true, but you think they’re important because they’re unique, and anyone else should care about them
because…why again?

Care or don't care. I just thought people might want a view point that wasn't the same old tired shit that always gets discussed.

iow: imatroll

(October 27, 2021 at 11:08 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(October 27, 2021 at 11:05 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, just to clarify:

You don’t care about whether or not your beliefs are true, but you think they’re important because they’re unique, and anyone else should care about them
because…why again?

Care or don't care. I just thought people might want a view point that wasn't the same old tired shit that always gets discussed.

And they might actually be interesting if you could show that they were true. Derp.

Quote:Who said anything about truth? I was just explaining why my beliefs are special.

I can go to the local mental institute and find you lots of "special " beliefs.

(October 28, 2021 at 7:29 am)Helios Wrote:

Quote:Who said anything about truth? I was just explaining why my beliefs are special.

I can go to the local mental institute and find you lots of "special " beliefs.

But unlike Ahriman, those guys do care if their beliefs are true (yet they demonstrably arent).

Iow: What a guy from an asylum has to say would be more interesting and productive than this troll

(October 27, 2021 at 9:29 pm)Spongebob Wrote: There appears to be at least two different conversations going on this thread.  One posits that there can be no meaning without resurrection.  Why?  How does resurrection give meaning to our lives on earth?

In the other, @The Grand Nudger  seems to acknowledge that theists have some idea in mind when they talk about meaning.  I tend to agree that they do but I don't really hear them expressing it so well.  Is this a failing of communication or an inability of them to understand their own idea?  It seems that if you can't come to a solid understanding of what an idea is and communicate it, then I can't agree there's much to communicate in the first place.  I think theists want there to be meaning that's god-driven, but because there's no satisfactory answer to that, they try their best to manufacture one and it falls on its face.

I'll be repeating something from another thread here because I think it's relevant to deconstructing meaning in that context.  They're bargaining for justice, bargaining for redemption, bargaining for mercy, bargaining for their very lives.

A person might believe that justice (or whatever else they believe is posited by resurrection and all that it entails) is value making or meaning giving.  That injustice would be value or meaning depriving or destroying.  That a vast number of personal and intimately consequential beings stand in demonstrable relation to each other and a description of that immense relationship is a description of justice, of which a person may want to be a part.  Justice, which is itself one part of an even larger web of consequential relationships - all of it informing our sense of the numinous. 

I tend to agree that justice is value/meaning making, injustice value/meaning destroying.  If we read " a world without the resurrection" as "a world without justice" we can see why a person might then contend that a world without the resurrection had no meaning, or would be diminished in that respect.  We could repeat this for a number of other thematically christian justifications for the statement.

-I just think they got the officiating agent in the transaction entirely wrong.

(October 28, 2021 at 7:05 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(October 27, 2021 at 11:08 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Care or don't care. I just thought people might want a view point that wasn't the same old tired shit that always gets discussed.

And they might actually be interesting if you could show that they were true. Derp.

What kind of logic is that.......that's like watching the Lion King (the cartoon movie) and going, "I can't watch this anymore, it's just so uninteresting, because I know this stuff didn't happen in real life"