Why and how does god know about meaning in a way that humans can't? A thing is either knowable or unknowable. I mean..I get the idea that a god might know something people don't..but I'm not sure I get can't...and I'm fairly certain that when it comes to meaning and human beings, understanding meaning is neither a can't or a don't.

You just got through telling us that there was no meaning to life, so..ostensibly, there would be no meaning for a god to know or understand..either, mind you.

(October 29, 2021 at 9:53 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(October 28, 2021 at 10:39 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Please demonstrate to us that there is such a 'grand' meaning.

How do you even know, that the grand purpose the god you believe exists, has chosen for you, is even in your best interests?

It's kind if strange to me, that the vast majority of people would rebel if their: college was chosen for them, their major, their career,  their spouse, where rhey are going to live, hiw many children they would have, etc, were all chosen for them.

But they seem perfectly ok with a god choosing their purpose for them.

A dictatorship, even if run by a benevolent god, is still a dictatorship.

It doesn't matter what the grand meaning is because only God knows what it is anyway. Humans don't need to be worried about the grand meaning.

It's not so much that there is no meaning (at all), it's just that, even if there is meaning, it's inconsequential. Humans are nowhere near as important as most people seem to believe. The only reason you're able to enjoy anything at all, or ponder the concept of "meaning", is because God chose to create you. Maybe He didn't foresee how stupid/arrogant a lot of people would end up being. Maybe we were just a "good idea" in God's mind, but in practice, turned out not so great. Whatever the case, all anyone should be concerned with is enjoying life. If there was a universal mandate for what humans must do, "enjoying life" would be that mandate. Of course, it isn't a mandate, because God doesn't care what you do.

(October 29, 2021 at 11:08 am)Ahriman Wrote: It's not so much that there is no meaning (at all), it's just that, even if there is meaning, it's inconsequential. Humans are nowhere near as important as most people seem to believe. The only reason you're able to enjoy anything at all, or ponder the concept of "meaning", is because God chose to create you. Maybe He didn't foresee how stupid/arrogant a lot of people would end up being. Maybe we were just a "good idea" in God's mind, but in practice, turned out not so great. Whatever the case, all anyone should be concerned with is enjoying life. If there was a universal mandate for what humans must do, "enjoying life" would be that mandate. Of course, it isn't a mandate, because God doesn't care what you do.

What is it that makes something, like humans, more or less important? More or less important than what?

Also, what evidence or justification do you have for believing we were created by a god? Or is it just another thing you believe for no good reason?

(October 29, 2021 at 11:22 am)Angrboda Wrote:

(October 29, 2021 at 11:08 am)Ahriman Wrote: It's not so much that there is no meaning (at all), it's just that, even if there is meaning, it's inconsequential. Humans are nowhere near as important as most people seem to believe. The only reason you're able to enjoy anything at all, or ponder the concept of "meaning", is because God chose to create you. Maybe He didn't foresee how stupid/arrogant a lot of people would end up being. Maybe we were just a "good idea" in God's mind, but in practice, turned out not so great. Whatever the case, all anyone should be concerned with is enjoying life. If there was a universal mandate for what humans must do, "enjoying life" would be that mandate. Of course, it isn't a mandate, because God doesn't care what you do.

What is it that makes something, like humans, more or less important?  More or less important than what?

Also, what evidence or justification do you have for believing we were created by a god?  Or is it just another thing you believe for no good reason?

Humans are actually the "most important" living things on the planet, but that's not saying much.

Beings as complex as humans don't just come into existence for no reason at all.

How do word?

mean·ing·ful
adjective
having meaning.
"meaningful elements in a language"
having a serious, important, or useful quality or purpose.
"making our lives rich and meaningful"
communicating something that is not directly expressed.
"meaningful glances and repressed passion"


in·con·se·quen·tial
adjective
not important or significant.
"they talked about inconsequential things"

Maybe you'll spot the problem, in the meantime. I don't know what human beings thinking that we're important would have to do with any argument about meaning. I'll refer back to something neo posted on page 7.

Quote:The meaning of a sign is found in the relationship between the sign and what the sign signifies. The meaning of a painting is not inherent in the canvas or colored globs; but rather, by reference to something external to it, i.e. the subject matter depicted. So when someone asks what the meaning of life is, he or she isn’t just looking to something within life that makes life worth living. Instead they are asking to participate in a relationship with something larger to which their lives refer

Do you see any requirement of importance here, such that....if we were not important, any of this would change? The notion of meaning as a relationship with things bigger and more important than you/me/the house cat is central to the idea of meaning to begin with. Isn't it? Isn't that the thing that keeps people on the tracks of whatever meaning they propose even when it doesn't turn out well for them, personally..even if it doesn't privilege them or raise their importance. Things like a cause. If not, what did you think we were talking about....?

Additionally, no god created me. I'm the mundane work product of two relatively unimportant apes fucking...and I bet it was a quick roll too, nothing earth shattering - and yet I found my way to meaning all the same. You can't seem to decide whether all anyone should be concerned with is enjoying life, or worshipping your silly god. You'll have to pick a lane on that eventually - the one might prevent significant barriers to the other.

Similarly, nothing about whether there is or is not some mandate to enjoy life has anything to do with gods, or whether gods care. In a wold of meaning or madate with a god or with no god..there is meaning or mandate, and in a world devoid of meaning or mandate with or without a god there is no meaning or mandate. Words. They work.

(October 29, 2021 at 11:30 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(October 29, 2021 at 11:22 am)Angrboda Wrote: What is it that makes something, like humans, more or less important?  More or less important than what?

Also, what evidence or justification do you have for believing we were created by a god?  Or is it just another thing you believe for no good reason?

Humans are actually the "most important" living things on the planet, but that's not saying much.

Beings as complex as humans don't just come into existence for no reason at all.

My goodness, but you’re just a big old bag o’ stupid.

Boru

(October 28, 2021 at 4:44 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I believe God created the universe, and that human beings have a special opportunity to enjoy two earthly lives and one of many timeless realms, collectively known as Heaven and Hell. Intellectual freedom varies between individuals, some have more, some have less.

I guarantee no one is giving you vitriol because of these beliefs.

---

(October 28, 2021 at 5:52 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(October 28, 2021 at 5:48 pm)Oldandeasilyconfused Wrote: Interesting that the best you can do is an ad hominem.  

Bored now.

You really think you're better than someone who believes in God? Why?

No one here thinks they're better than you just because you believe in God. That's your fantasy. If anyone thinks they're better than you here, they think so because of what you post. It's not your beliefs, it's you. We've had plenty of believers here who have earned respect. You're just not one of them.

Let's pretend for a moment that the universe as we know it doesn't exist and for the sake of argument, only a god exists.

The only thing in existence is a god. Nothing else.
For all of eternity only a god exists.

Does that make any sense ?

In a counterfactual reality posited as precisely that? Yeah, makes perfect sense. Hell, that's what some god botherers in this reality actually believe. FWIW, I think that's a more genuine expression of a silly idea. At least theres some intellectual cover for it, as opposed to a ghost story. It may be that all of thse parts we see are artifical distinctions. Artifacts of categorization but not intervening in mere reality. That everything is all ultimately one indivisible thing distinguished in conceptual parts by degree but never kind.