(November 2, 2021 at 10:29 am)Ahriman Wrote: Let's not pretend like suffering is the same for everyone.......most people don't suffer very deeply, so their suffering is trivial compared to someone who suffers deeply. No matter what afflicts most people, they can take it, because their threshold for suffering is very high. So all this reference of, "But what about AIDS, ebola, malaria, cancer etc." is just stupid.

Is it, or have you completely misunderstood it? Sure, the amount of pain or suffering a person feels might be more or less for some given x and we do take that into account when we moralize over x - but being evil in the case of inflicting aids, ebola, malaria and cancer on people or being capable of resolving these things but choosing not to is not evil -only- when it's done to people with a low threshold for suffering.  Such that, being the kind of douche who would do that isn't as bad or so bad when you just stick it to the stoics.  It's about the personal responsibility of a competent moral agent.  Do you take any, do you believe that a god has any? Is it even competent...because that would be a hard defeater for any ethical question about god's responsibilities, at least. Maybe it just can't get right, like a busted human being? We definitely hand out mulligans to incompetents.

Meanwhile, the act is itself an evil act - and so, not logically consistent with a god that is claimed to do no evil.  Perfectly fine for meat grinder god.  That may just be the way that gods are.  Or so it would seem if this world is claimed to be evidence of a gods attributes and interests in every particular.

Just to get ahead of the next batshit complaint since it's already reared it's misbegotten head before - maaaaaybe there's some mysterious reason™! A wonderful conjecture, but..also, explicit agreement with the argument - the claim there is no apparent reason for this, and this god is..apparently...indifferent, incompetent, malevolent, or some combination of those things, if not all of those things - in addition to be logically incoherent on the grounds of it's own claims prima facia. I know...I know, why call something like that a god and grovel at it's feet and embarrass yourself online in front of strangers on it's behalf? Kloro understands the concept of a shit god concept even though he inconsistently applies it. How about you?

Well, friend, that's exactly the question the problem of evil proposes, as it just so happens.

(November 1, 2021 at 11:06 am)Spongebob Wrote:

(October 30, 2021 at 5:16 pm)slartibartfast Wrote: That's the same reasoning drug addicts use too, I imagine.  

in reality, there are many reasons why a life with religious beliefs may be better for some individuals. If you are part of a community of likeminded people who all share the same belief, that can make you stronger, give you a sense of belonging and guidance. If you really believe that there is an omnipotent being looking our for you at every moment of your life, it does give you measurable emotional support. And if you really believe that you go to a better place when you die, then this absolutely helps you deal emotionally with death, both yours and family members'. I could go on...

The problem with the "life is better with religion" justification is that whilst the benefits of belief for some individuals may be real, it does NOTHING to substantiate any claims as to the validity of the claim. In reality, God either exists or not. And if God does not exist (and there is currently NO evidence) then irrespective of the perceived benefits, it is all a fallacy, Also, whilst some individuals get these benefits, many, many people are significantly worse off due to religion.

Any benefits conveyed by religion are either the same sort of benefits one gets from placebo (meaning if you believe you are being helped, then you may experience some improvement for some problems) or from the community support a religious community provides.

Placebo is absolutely the right comparison. Perfectly explains about 80% of the "better with" part.

Except there's no "better with" part to explain in the first place. It's not even a placebo. The vast majority of miserable people are believers by brute force of demographics. Belief in a god doesn't seem to be making life any better for people who believe in gods..and that makes it idiotic to believe that it -could- make life better for people who don't.

What would make life better for people who didn't believe in gods and for people who do..... is if people who did believe stopped being such dicks and blaming it on their gods. Full stop.

(October 30, 2021 at 4:32 pm)hriman Wrote:

(October 30, 2021 at 4:17 pm)brewer Wrote: It's exactly what I thought, just an exercise in conformation. You can return for your fantasy now.

You know life is better with magic beliefs right?

For me it's very simple and just boils down to this: 


I am definitely a red pill guy. You can keep living in the Matrix and pretend everything is fine.

I agree with the Doctor Who fan on page one that said you find your own meaning. My meaning is to provide entertaining videos on YouTube and to create stories that people can enjoy and talk about for years to come. Basically my purpose is to create content and just live the best life I can.

What drives me to lead a happy, meaningful life ?

Feelings of joy and accomplishment top the list. I also love being content, without any drama or mental distractions running around in my head.

I live a simple life and have good family and friends that bring meaning to it all. This shared connection we have, breathing the same air on the same planet gives us all a sense of community and a shared responsibility for all that we do within our community and the world as a whole.

Sex, drugs and Rock ´n roll.

(November 10, 2021 at 4:11 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Sex, drugs and Rock ´n roll.

What a fulfilling life.

(November 10, 2021 at 4:49 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(November 10, 2021 at 4:11 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Sex, drugs and Rock ´n roll.

What a fulfilling life.

as opposed to the self-loathing, hate filled superstition you advocate?

(November 10, 2021 at 4:49 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(November 10, 2021 at 4:11 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Sex, drugs and Rock ´n roll.

What a fulfilling life.

Whats your problem with Rock ´n roll?