(November 27, 2021 at 12:36 am)snowtracks Wrote:

(November 18, 2021 at 12:42 am)Paleophyte Wrote: Young Earth Creationism doesn't work because you need vast amounts of time for various physical processes to have occurred during. Trying to get them to work quickly requires violating the fundamental forces of the universe and/or a deity that's a liar.

Old Earth Creationism doesn't work because humans appear on the scene only recently. Trying to create them at some dim time in the past and hold them static over geological time without a single fossil gets ridiculous. More so when you try and explain away all those pesky similarities we share with the chimps and our other primate cousins. The entire fossil record ends up a nasty joke and the less said about genetic phylogeny the better.

Intelligent Design doesn't work because it's just creationism of one form or another wearing a fake moustache and suffers the same flaws.

Theistic Evolution doesn't work because it requires a god that ignores millions of years of barbarity and suffering before finally doing anything about it, and then only for a few paleolithic goat herders in the Sinai Penninsula.

What other conclusion:  The brain started functioning without a blueprint for its development, and the mind and consciousness came after the physical organ?  Well, obviously, after infinity was transversed, energy and matter decided to get together without a cause to do so. 

By the way, what was that first thought before language development?

I have just read an interesting book on how Cephalopods developed two different kinds intelligence at the same time, its fascinating. They have a central brain that has a certain amount of coordination but the limbs can also act independently and intelligently, research has shown that these are the results of the two evolving separately in the same animals at the same time they work so differently from each other.

The book is this.

Other Minds: the Octopus and the evolution of intelligent life

I believe it's real; all creatures did evolve from something, house cats evolved from 'Felis silvestris lybica' after domestication for example.

Islam which I practice did mention that the creation of Adam involved a "fashioning" stage:

https://quran.com/15:29?font=v1&translations=131%2C20

Sura 15: verse 28˹: Remember, O Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud.1

Sura 15: verse 28˹ : So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.”

I believe that "fashioning Adam" is evolution.

So, I believe in it. It's common sense.

(November 28, 2021 at 12:05 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I believe it's real; all creatures did evolve from something, house cats evolved from 'Felis silvestris lybica' after domestication for example.

Islam which I practice did mention that the creation of Adam involved a "fashioning" stage:

https://quran.com/15:29?font=v1&translations=131%2C20

Sura 15: verse 28˹: Remember, O  Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud.1

Sura 15: verse 28˹ : So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.”

I believe that "fashioning Adam" is evolution.

So, I believe in it. It's common sense.

Yeah, god fashioning Adam from clay is absolutely not what evolution is.

Boru

(November 28, 2021 at 12:05 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I believe it's real; all creatures did evolve from something, house cats evolved from 'Felis silvestris lybica' after domestication for example.

Islam which I practice did mention that the creation of Adam involved a "fashioning" stage:

https://quran.com/15:29?font=v1&translations=131%2C20

Sura 15: verse 28˹: Remember, O  Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud.1

Sura 15: verse 28˹ : So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.”

I believe that "fashioning Adam" is evolution.

So, I believe in it. It's common sense.

Who was Adam’s dad and mom? The black mud?

Turning a piece of mud into a human is magic. Mud is just wet dirt, which contains sand, which is mostly SiO2. So, this god converted some of the silicon atoms into carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, sulfur, calcium?
So, we are talking about transmutation of matter and also positioning atoms so that you end up having the right molecules.

A line like “he made a human from mud” is reasonable for a primitive human.
Anything that is about transmutation of matter makes sense to a primitive human since he doesn’t really know what matter is, he doesn’t know what the law of conservation of mass and energy is.
The authors of the jewish religion could have written:
1. God took a copper from the copper mines and fashioned it into Adam.
2. God took some piece of the Sun.
3. God took a piece of his own rib and fashioned Adam.
4. God made Adam from nothing. (because ultimately, where did the mud come from, where the Earth come from?)

The authors could have written any number of things and the primitive humans would find it acceptable.

In your case, you reject the idea that god made Adam from mud. You are actually choosing science over religion while claiming to be accepting both.
Congratulations, you’re belief is different than your ancestors from 100 y ago.

BTW, making a human from mud is more akin to abiogenesis. That’s not biological evolution.

(November 28, 2021 at 12:05 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I believe it's real; all creatures did evolve from something, house cats evolved from 'Felis silvestris lybica' after domestication for example.

Islam which I practice did mention that the creation of Adam involved a "fashioning" stage:

https://quran.com/15:29?font=v1&translations=131%2C20

Sura 15: verse 28˹: Remember, O  Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud.1

Sura 15: verse 28˹ : So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.”

I believe that "fashioning Adam" is evolution.

So, I believe in it. It's common sense.

Umm, you do know you're on an atheist forum?  Quoting the Quran is not usually accepted as reasoned argument.

Neither the Torah (from which a lot of the Quran was lifted) nor the Quran are history  or science books.  They are religious texts, written by men for men .  

This atheist rejects the concept of  revelation or dictation from a deity.  Because I don't believe in god(s), I'm also unable to believe he inspired or dictated anything. What with probably not existing. 

 Fashioning Adam is evolution? Hardly.  In that context, fashioning is usually taken to mean 'create' as far as I'm aware.. Of course, it's fine for you to find your own interpretations. As long as you're aware  I for one will call you out. Especially when you make a claim as fatuous as fashioning Adam means evolution.

(November 28, 2021 at 4:32 pm)Oldandeasilyconfused Wrote:

(November 28, 2021 at 12:05 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I believe it's real; all creatures did evolve from something, house cats evolved from 'Felis silvestris lybica' after domestication for example.

Islam which I practice did mention that the creation of Adam involved a "fashioning" stage:

https://quran.com/15:29?font=v1&translations=131%2C20

Sura 15: verse 28˹: Remember, O  Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud.1

Sura 15: verse 28˹ : So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.”

I believe that "fashioning Adam" is evolution.

So, I believe in it. It's common sense.

Umm, you do know you're on an atheist forum?  Quoting the Quran is not usually accepted as reasoned argument.

Neither the Torah (from which a lot of the Quran was lifted) nor the Quran are history  or science books.  They are religious texts, written by men for men .  

This atheist rejects the concept of  revelation or dictation from a deity.  Because I don't believe in god(s), I'm also unable to believe he inspired or dictated anything. What with probably not existing. 

 Fashioning Adam is evolution? Hardly.  In that context, fashioning is usually taken to mean 'create' as far as I'm aware.. Of course, it's fine for you to find your own interpretations. As long as you're aware  I for one will call you out. Especially when you make a claim as fatuous as fashioning Adam means evolution.

Oldandeasily confused...meet Winter. You sort of get used to him. He has a fetish for ostriches and hates the US. Next up will be Kloro...he's not as fun as Winter.

(November 28, 2021 at 4:55 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(November 28, 2021 at 4:32 pm)Oldandeasilyconfused Wrote: Umm, you do know you're on an atheist forum?  Quoting the Quran is not usually accepted as reasoned argument.

Neither the Torah (from which a lot of the Quran was lifted) nor the Quran are history  or science books.  They are religious texts, written by men for men .  

This atheist rejects the concept of  revelation or dictation from a deity.  Because I don't believe in god(s), I'm also unable to believe he inspired or dictated anything. What with probably not existing. 

 Fashioning Adam is evolution? Hardly.  In that context, fashioning is usually taken to mean 'create' as far as I'm aware.. Of course, it's fine for you to find your own interpretations. As long as you're aware  I for one will call you out. Especially when you make a claim as fatuous as fashioning Adam means evolution.

Oldandeasily confused...meet Winter.  You sort of get used to him.  He has a fetish for ostriches and hates the US.  Next up will be Kloro...he's not as fun as Winter.

Well it seems clear he has some positive traits.   


I also have fetish; I'm strongly attracted to women from about 35 to 45.  I'm 74, so a fat lot of good that does me.


PS the nameisoneword.

(November 27, 2021 at 12:36 am)snowtracks Wrote:

(November 18, 2021 at 12:42 am)Paleophyte Wrote: Young Earth Creationism doesn't work because you need vast amounts of time for various physical processes to have occurred during. Trying to get them to work quickly requires violating the fundamental forces of the universe and/or a deity that's a liar.

Old Earth Creationism doesn't work because humans appear on the scene only recently. Trying to create them at some dim time in the past and hold them static over geological time without a single fossil gets ridiculous. More so when you try and explain away all those pesky similarities we share with the chimps and our other primate cousins. The entire fossil record ends up a nasty joke and the less said about genetic phylogeny the better.

Intelligent Design doesn't work because it's just creationism of one form or another wearing a fake moustache and suffers the same flaws.

Theistic Evolution doesn't work because it requires a god that ignores millions of years of barbarity and suffering before finally doing anything about it, and then only for a few paleolithic goat herders in the Sinai Penninsula.

What other conclusion:  The brain started functioning without a blueprint for its development, and the mind and consciousness came after the physical organ?  Well, obviously, after infinity was transversed, energy and matter decided to get together without a cause to do so. 

I don't get it thus gawd? Have fun with those strawmen. If there was a blueprint for the brain then your god would be on the hook for even more barbarities than he manifestly already is. Seriously, what sane deity hardwires a sentient species for tribalism? That mess in your head is clearly organic and has nothing to do with design.

Quote:By the way, what was that first thought before language development?

The first rudimentary thought was likely 'I Hunger' and took no language whatsoever.

(November 28, 2021 at 12:40 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(November 28, 2021 at 12:05 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I believe it's real; all creatures did evolve from something, house cats evolved from 'Felis silvestris lybica' after domestication for example.

Islam which I practice did mention that the creation of Adam involved a "fashioning" stage:

https://quran.com/15:29?font=v1&translations=131%2C20

Sura 15: verse 28˹: Remember, O  Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud.1

Sura 15: verse 28˹ : So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.”

I believe that "fashioning Adam" is evolution.

So, I believe in it. It's common sense.

Yeah, god fashioning Adam from clay is absolutely not what evolution is.

Boru

Your body is stardust + water.
That is clay.

---

(November 28, 2021 at 4:32 pm)Oldandeasilyconfused Wrote:

(November 28, 2021 at 12:05 pm)WinterHold Wrote: I believe it's real; all creatures did evolve from something, house cats evolved from 'Felis silvestris lybica' after domestication for example.

Islam which I practice did mention that the creation of Adam involved a "fashioning" stage:

https://quran.com/15:29?font=v1&translations=131%2C20

Sura 15: verse 28˹: Remember, O  Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud.1

Sura 15: verse 28˹ : So when I have fashioned him and had a spirit of My Own ˹creation˺ breathed into him, fall down in prostration to him.”

I believe that "fashioning Adam" is evolution.

So, I believe in it. It's common sense.

Umm, you do know you're on an atheist forum?  Quoting the Quran is not usually accepted as reasoned argument.

Neither the Torah (from which a lot of the Quran was lifted) nor the Quran are history  or science books.  They are religious texts, written by men for men .  

This atheist rejects the concept of  revelation or dictation from a deity.  Because I don't believe in god(s), I'm also unable to believe he inspired or dictated anything. What with probably not existing. 

 Fashioning Adam is evolution? Hardly.  In that context, fashioning is usually taken to mean 'create' as far as I'm aware.. Of course, it's fine for you to find your own interpretations. As long as you're aware  I for one will call you out. Especially when you make a claim as fatuous as fashioning Adam means evolution.

Look at my registration date. I know this forum before you.

No, fashioning literally means:

Quote:fashion
/ˈfaʃ(ə)n/


verb
gerund or present participle: fashioning

1. make into a particular form.
   "the bottles were fashioned from green glass"
   
   • use materials to produce (something).
     "the skins were fashioned into boots and shoes"
     
2. Oxford Languages

So, God made certain materials into "a particular form" then breathed the soul into it.
Making the materials into "Adam" can take billions of years.

i.e the materials need to "evolve" until they reach the form of "Adam", then the soul would be breathed unto the being.

Picture it with me. Monkeys were the step before Adam. Gorillas too. Isn't that evolution; literally ?
Monkeys evolving into Homosapians ?and when the Homosapians came into being; God's soul was breathed into them.

(November 29, 2021 at 12:50 am)WinterHold Wrote: Your body is stardust + water.
That is clay.

---

No.
This is stardust:
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_dust#Stardust

Quote:Many new aspects of nucleosynthesis have been discovered from the isotopic ratios within the stardust grains.[25] An important property of stardust is the hard, refractory, high-temperature nature of the grains. Prominent are silicon carbide, graphite, aluminium oxide, aluminium spinel, and other such solids that would condense at high temperature from a cooling gas, such as in stellar winds or in the decompression of the inside of a supernova. They differ greatly from the solids formed at low temperature within the interstellar medium.

Another dramatic example is given by the so-called supernova condensates, usually shortened by acronym to SUNOCON (from SUperNOva CONdensate[24]) to distinguish them from other stardust condensed within stellar atmospheres. SUNOCONs contain in their calcium an excessively large abundance[26] of 44Ca, demonstrating that they condensed containing abundant radioactive 44Ti, which has a 65-year half-life. The outflowing 44Ti nuclei were thus still "alive" (radioactive) when the SUNOCON condensed near one year within the expanding supernova interior, but would have become an extinct radionuclide (specifically 44Ca) after the time required for mixing with the interstellar gas. Its discovery proved the prediction[27] from 1975 that it might be possible to identify SUNOCONs in this way. The SiC SUNOCONs (from supernovae) are only about 1% as numerous as are SiC stardust from AGB stars.

Laboratories have studied solids that existed before the Earth was formed.[28] This was once thought impossible, especially in the 1970s when cosmochemists were confident that the Solar System began as a hot gas[29] virtually devoid of any remaining solids, which would have been vaporized by high temperature. The existence of stardust proved this historic picture incorrect.

The universe started out with the simplest element, which is hydrogen.
Some of the hydrogen came together to form gigantic clouds, and at the center, they began to form a star.
It is in stars that heavier elements form.
Stars blow away some nuclei into space, just like our Sun is doing right now.
Sometimes, a star explodes. They blow away the outer layer into space. This stuff condenses over time. Some of it is blown away, they have too much speed and they don’t come back.
It’s the remaining condensate that participates in forming the Earth and other planets.
This stuff is not mentioned in any holy book.

Quote:Picture it with me. Monkeys were the step before Adam. Gorillas too. Isn't that evolution; literally?
Monkeys evolving into Homosapians?and when the Homosapians came into being; God's soul was breathed into them.

It’s easy to look this stuff up.
No, monkeys were not the step before Adam.
It looks like there were homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis that existed in parallel and at some point, homo neanderthalensis went extinct.

You have a partial tree view here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Evolution