(June 22, 2009 at 10:31 am)Ace Wrote:

(June 22, 2009 at 10:24 am)Rockthatpiano06 Wrote: YES YES YESSS. I completely agree with you and this is what I've always said. Why is America special? We are not. I have no idea why America has this ellitist attitude. We are just as fucked as everyone else.

Bingo!

I don't see america as special or good enough to have nuclear weapons. So far the US is the only nation to have used nuclear weapons on others. I sometimes get the impretion that the US is in charge or something. Like they know it all.

I completely agree.

And to attempt to expand on that...On the matter of patriotism as a whole - do you know what I think?...I think it's a bunch of shit. Complete total and utter, plain, pure, bullshit - in a bag. A pile of bollocks, an entire packet of a whole load of balls. It just really is total toshy ballsy, ballsy, ballsy balls - IMO.

Why do I think this? Simply because: Why should you consider your own country is in anyway special (or act like it is) simply because you're born there? Or why should you act like it's "Better" (define better for a start). Why be proud of a genetic accident? And if it's not pride and merely 'happiness' or 'gratitude' that's being expressed...then that's certainly not patriotism how I understand it anyway!!

Patriotism just seems like a form of national arrogance in itself to me, how I understand it. The degree of how it's expressed just seems to determine the degree of how bad it is I think.

Sorry if that's a digression. In which case - other mods feel free to edit of course (or tell me to do it myself if you prefer )

Quote:Nuclear disarmament would be best for us all.

And I of course - totally agree with that statement too. In fact I think that it's a statement that really should be one of those things that 'go without saying'. It should be obvious IMO.

If no one had nuclear weapons then if anyone thinks that's not better then perhaps I think that's about as warped a moral opinion (and/or attitude(?)) as you can have.


EvF

Patriotism is love of and/or devotion to one's country. I love my country, not because it is better, or because it is special in any way but because the country I was born in is beautiful, it's inhabitants are nice, and it has a system in place that allows me to live the way I want to live, think what I want to think, and express opinions what I want to express.

Others will feel the same way about their country, that doesn't diminish the love I have for mine. If I ever emigrate to whatever I might be able to build up a happy life there, but I certainly would miss my home country. I moved to Rotterdam 3 years back and I miss Brabant like crazy already, never mind another country.

If you love your country and you would even if you weren't born there (becasue the reasons you gave seem to apply whether you were or not?) then would you still consider that to be patriotism?

EvF

Yes.

Patriotism is fine as long as you have actual reasons for being patriotic. Being patriotic for the sake of being patriotic (i.e. I love my country because it's my country) is ridiculous.

Interesting...because that's not how I generally understand patriotism as a whole: Simply loving your country because you think it's great for good reasons that could apply just as easily even if it wasn't 'your' country. I don't tend to think of that as patriotism, hm..

So if that's the case then - is there another word--or term--for that ridiculous type of patriotism, then? And if not...--as a side note--perhaps there should be for the extra clarity! Do you think?

EvF

(June 22, 2009 at 10:24 am)Rockthatpiano06 Wrote: Why is America special? We are not. I have no idea why America has this ellitist attitude.

Maybe because America is elite? And quit hating on America pertaining to not allowing other countries to possess nukes. The UK and many others are right there with us. It's not an american ideal or rule, it's a collective ruling from the elite countries, not just america.

Ok Dotard, we'll accept that the USA "allows" other countries to have nukes, but why should it have that power in the first place? Even if it is a collective decision (which it's not...just look at Russia), how do you rank these countries in terms of eliteness? Why is your version of eliteness the right way to do it?

(June 21, 2009 at 10:44 am)Dotard Wrote: Hmmm... following that logic;

United Kingdom, Canada, Saudi, India, Philippines, Australia, Romainia, El Salvador, Estonia, Bulgaria, Moldova, Albania, Ukraine, Denmark, Czech Republic, South Korea, Japan, Tonga, Azerbaijan, Singapore, Bosnia, Macedonia, Latvia, Poland, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Mongolia and Georgia are all a bunch of illegally country invading terrorists.

You really contending every trooper from all the listed countries are terrorists?

My comment was in response to the fatuous comment that 100% of terrorists are Muslims. -The point was the definition is largely one of perception. A good proportion of the Muslims world does indeed see the "coalition of the willing" as terrorists. Soldiers may not avoid personal responsibility with the "I'm only following orders claim. (aka "The Nuremberg Defence") I'm pretty sure I'd see them as terrorists I were an Iraqi and would support the resistance.

It has also been argued that US and its coalition waged a war of aggression on Iraq,which is in breach of The Nuremberg Statutes drafted by the allies after WW2 and used to try Nazi war criminals.

Agree,disagree, I don't give a shit.You asked,I replied.

(June 22, 2009 at 5:52 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Interesting...because that's not how I generally understand patriotism as a whole: Simply loving your country because you think it's great for good reasons that could apply just as easily even if it wasn't 'your' country.

Why do you assume that is a person isn't born there it isn't his or her country? And why can't he or she be patriotic about it?

(June 22, 2009 at 5:52 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: So if that's the case then - is there another word--or term--for that ridiculous type of patriotism, then? And if not...--as a side note--perhaps there should be for the extra clarity! Do you think?

What you mean is Chauvinism. Chauvinism is a blind belief in national superiority and glory. It's a hyped version of Nationalism, somewhat akin towards Jingoism.