Posts: 35289
Threads: 204
Joined: August 13, 2012
Reputation:
146
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 6:13 am
NATO needs to make it clear that this us unacceptable and there will be consequences.
12 hours to call a cease fire.
24 to begin a withdrawal.
48 to get all forces out of the Ukraine.
After that, remove a couple of Russian military bases from the map and start pushing them out by force.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
Posts: 46196
Threads: 539
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 6:29 am
(February 25, 2022 at 6:13 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: NATO needs to make it clear that this us unacceptable and there will be consequences.
12 hours to call a cease fire.
24 to begin a withdrawal.
48 to get all forces out of the Ukraine.
After that, remove a couple of Russian military bases from the map and start pushing them out by force.
I don’t disagree (if Ukraine joining NATO is an existential threat to Russia, then Ukraine as a Russian puppet state is an existential threat to NATO), but it isn’t likely to happen. NATO’s best option right now is a massive deployment of military assets to Poland, which I have a sinking feeling is next on Putin’s hit list.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 2762
Threads: 4
Joined: September 21, 2018
Reputation:
33
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 7:40 am
(February 25, 2022 at 6:29 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (February 25, 2022 at 6:13 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: NATO needs to make it clear that this us unacceptable and there will be consequences.
12 hours to call a cease fire.
24 to begin a withdrawal.
48 to get all forces out of the Ukraine.
After that, remove a couple of Russian military bases from the map and start pushing them out by force.
I don’t disagree (if Ukraine joining NATO is an existential threat to Russia, then Ukraine as a Russian puppet state is an existential threat to NATO), but it isn’t likely to happen. NATO’s best option right now is a massive deployment of military assets to Poland, which I have a sinking feeling is next on Putin’s hit list.
Boru Putin wont attack NATO. He knows the consequences.
There were only two countries for him left to focus on:* Ukraine and Belarus. If/when Ukraine is finished, he will make sure Belarus gets moved *closer* (in)to Russia. If he survives this major blunder he just caused.
*Moldavia is not a thing regarding this situation
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
Posts: 46196
Threads: 539
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 7:52 am
(February 25, 2022 at 7:40 am)Deesse23 Wrote: (February 25, 2022 at 6:29 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I don’t disagree (if Ukraine joining NATO is an existential threat to Russia, then Ukraine as a Russian puppet state is an existential threat to NATO), but it isn’t likely to happen. NATO’s best option right now is a massive deployment of military assets to Poland, which I have a sinking feeling is next on Putin’s hit list.
Boru Putin wont attack NATO. He knows the consequences.
There were only two countries for him left to focus on:* Ukraine and Belarus. If/when Ukraine is finished, he will make sure Belarus gets moved *closer* (in)to Russia. If he survives this major blunder he just caused.
*Moldavia is not a thing regarding this situation
‘Putin won’t’ and ‘Putin will’ are pretty problematic positions.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 2762
Threads: 4
Joined: September 21, 2018
Reputation:
33
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 8:12 am
(February 25, 2022 at 7:52 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (February 25, 2022 at 7:40 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Putin wont attack NATO. He knows the consequences.
There were only two countries for him left to focus on:* Ukraine and Belarus. If/when Ukraine is finished, he will make sure Belarus gets moved *closer* (in)to Russia. If he survives this major blunder he just caused.
*Moldavia is not a thing regarding this situation
‘Putin won’t’ and ‘Putin will’ are pretty problematic positions.
Boru I think Putin wont
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
Posts: 4473
Threads: 13
Joined: September 27, 2018
Reputation:
17
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 8:43 am
Today in other news:
America dropped bombs on Somalia.
Israel dropped US-made bombs on Syria.
Saudi Arabia dropped A LOT of US-made bombs on Yemen.
Posts: 10699
Threads: 15
Joined: September 9, 2011
Reputation:
119
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 10:12 am
In cooperation with the Somali government, Africa Command conducted an airstrike agains Al-Shabbab.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
Posts: 19789
Threads: 57
Joined: September 24, 2010
Reputation:
85
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 10:47 am
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2022 at 11:01 am by Anomalocaris.)
(February 25, 2022 at 3:16 am)Deesse23 Wrote: (February 24, 2022 at 6:19 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Pro-western Ukrainian governments since 2005 has been clammering for NATO member ship as a way to burn the bridge with russia and preventing Ukraine from backsliding towards russian influence. Maybe, just maybe that has to do something with how well the Ukrainian SSR did under the USSR? Do you have a problem with sovereign and independent states, electing leaders who act in their countries own interest and not Russias?
I dont give a fuck about Russia as much as Putin gives a fuck about me. Lately he was asked if he intends to give back Ospreussen to Germany. Guess his answer: Germany lost WWII
Too bad, (soviet)Russia lost the following cold one. History sucks. Get.used.to.this.Vlad.
I am fed up with this russo apologetic BS.
If you want to give Putin Ukriane, then i want to have: Pommern, Schlesien, Ostpreussen and Memelland. Austria too if you may. The country that curerntly makes Poland is also artificial, more so than Ukraine ever was, to a large extend former gemran territory. Poland was entired shifted westwards, because Stalin wanted some parts of then Poland. Why not adress that?
What? You have different standards for Putin , Poland and me?
Too bad.
(February 24, 2022 at 11:25 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: His being demonized in the west
He is imprisoning and sentencing political opponents at will, looking away (if not involved in) killing of inconvenient journalists (or former FSB whistleblowers), has destroyed free press and ceased to hold free elections (even then he needed to resort to prohibit an opponent from being able to run for election, thats how shit scared of the last bit of freedom in Russia he is). He made being gay illegal. He also, just lately, invaded an independent country.
Yes, he is a pretty bad hombre. Ymmv o.c..
standard ultimately is a conceit. what is right or wrong is ultimately just a conceit. what you personally care about or is fed up with is an even more pathetic conceit. capability and interest will overwhelm either, as they are doing now, by russia to ukraine.
thinking self serving standards will allow us to run roughshod over russia’s interests and capabilities is what got us here. it will not get us out of here, whatever much you wish it would.
Posts: 67223
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 10:55 am
The moral/geopolitical sewer explanation. Again, maybe so, but if so, there isn't much point to any kind of politics or diplomacy whatsoever.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 19789
Threads: 57
Joined: September 24, 2010
Reputation:
85
RE: Russia and Ukraine
February 25, 2022 at 10:59 am
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2022 at 12:11 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(February 25, 2022 at 6:29 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (February 25, 2022 at 6:13 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: NATO needs to make it clear that this us unacceptable and there will be consequences.
12 hours to call a cease fire.
24 to begin a withdrawal.
48 to get all forces out of the Ukraine.
After that, remove a couple of Russian military bases from the map and start pushing them out by force.
I don’t disagree (if Ukraine joining NATO is an existential threat to Russia, then Ukraine as a Russian puppet state is an existential threat to NATO), but it isn’t likely to happen. NATO’s best option right now is a massive deployment of military assets to Poland, which I have a sinking feeling is next on Putin’s hit list.
Boru
no, he does not intend to go beyond ukraine right now. belarus is already in his pocket, ruled as it has since the fall of soviet union by the same former soviet apparatchik. The relationship between russia and belarus now is already the same as what he would want the repkaship between Russia and Ukraine to be when he is done.
in the long run, his next logical target will undoubtedly be the baltic republicans, not poland. Baltic republics were part of the USSR proper, like ukraine, and before that part of the czarist Russian empire, just like ukraine, not just a former warsaw pact satellite or was only partially under czarist rule, like poland. Their being part of the NATO threatens Saint Petersburg, russian access to the baltic, as well as russian acres to kaliningrad, and they are geographically well suited to be taken by a multi prone invasion from several direction.
However, It is unlikely he made up his mind to do this.
As to ukraine being an existential threat to NATO, it is, but only by choice, and not the only existential threat facing it either. Geopolitically nato didn’t need to expand into former warsaw pact at all, as indeed the US and NATO did promise Gorbachev it won’t if they soviet union withdrew from east germany.
the current NATO still has no need for ukraine to ensure safety of existing members. it only wants ukraine to prevent Russia becoming a obstacle to US hegemony in euroasia, but the US hegemony in Euroasia i’m now also face multiple other serious and increasing obstacles.
The reason why russian taking ukraine threatens NATO is simply it shows NATO talks a lot more than it needs to, and if believed, then one might find oneself facing the consequences of it not being able to walk the walk.
Undoubtedly NATO will put on an exhibit of solidarity for next few years. but NATO is damaged goods. It was was damaged when Trump dissed it. without the US NATO is worthless because all of the other NATO states combined can’t defend its peripheral states against russia invasion of russia so chooses to invade. While ukraine damaged it some more, the fact that the self same trump remains the lord of one of the two political party in the US and that party is on track to win mid term election, which places trump in good position to put in act 2, in fact suppresses it’s credibility at a much deeper level. just yesterday trump lost no time to offer fawning praise of Putin and his decisiveness and cleverness as the invasion was developing.
No one will take NATO seriously if there is even odds it will effective dissolve sometime in the next several years.
the pivot by the US to the pacific to confront china also diminishes NATO credibility. ultimately what makes NATO a spent force is the fact all its members combined represents an ever diminishing part of global economy.
(February 25, 2022 at 6:13 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: NATO needs to make it clear that this us unacceptable and there will be consequences.
12 hours to call a cease fire.
24 to begin a withdrawal.
48 to get all forces out of the Ukraine.
After that, remove a couple of Russian military bases from the map and start pushing them out by force.
huh, by force? which force?
they can remove nato bases and cities from map too.
|
