(July 28, 2022 at 12:19 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote:

(July 28, 2022 at 11:47 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Then there's the 'Fine tuning' thing. Where?
The Earth sits in a zone along with Venus and Mars that we're pretty sure allow for liquid water under an atmosphere. So we're one out of three there.
Then there's the orbit of the Earth which meanders over a few million miles per orbit, hence effecting the temperature for all involved just a little bit.
Followed by the wobble in the Earth's rotation that screws with things just a little bit more.
Then you've got the constant flexing of the Earth by the Moon as it meanders back and forth in its orbit heating the place up and causing tectonic shifts, earthquakes, volcanoes.....
The list of things 'Out of whack' in the system just goes on and on and on..... Would you like to know more?

The "Fine tuning" argument is around the range of possible physical constants, and the proposal that most of that potential parameter space could not lead to any sort of life (not just life as we know it).  If there is no physical "reason" for the current values of physical constants, then they must have been chosen by a god.

It is a good question.  Possible answers are that what appear to be "free parameters" in physics are not free at all, or that there is a multiverse where different physics applies in different regions or versions (and only habitable universes will have creatures asking these questions).

Of course, if it were a god designing the universe, why is it so hostile to life?  We might be the only intelligent civilization in our galaxy at present.  It certainly doesn't seem designed for life.

"Possible answers are that what appear to be "free parameters" in physics are not free at all,"

Well give evidence they were not free. If you want to say it was possible, give evidence for it. Or, can you say anything you want with no evidence to back it?

"or that there is a multiverse where different physics applies in different regions or versions (and only habitable universes will have creatures asking these questions)."

Do supply evidence for your multiverse. There's a reason I brought up in my first comment in this thread, those that object to science only have science fiction to resort to, and that's precisely what you are doing. You can do that with anything, like 2 + 2 = 4. You can say that it's possible that the math parameters only appear to make it look like the answer is 4. Or that in another universe it equals 45,892. 


"Of course, if it were a god designing the universe, why is it so hostile to life?"

If it were "so hostile to life" then why do we have life on this earth? YOU tell me how we got life on this earth. We clearly DO have life on this earth so tell me how it got here on its own. Can you answer anything because this thread is titled "Why does science always upstage God?" and none of you can supply such science at ALL. 

"We might be the only intelligent civilization in our galaxy at present."

Oh, here's another one; how did we get intelligence? Intelligence is informational and information is immaterial so information only comes from intelligence. So if you want to flatter yourself that you are part of this intelligent civilization explain how we got information, how we got life, and how we got reproduction to become a civilization. Then again, I'm still waiting for science how we even got this universe on its own.

(July 28, 2022 at 9:00 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: My suggestion is to stop feeding this troll.

(July 28, 2022 at 9:00 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: My suggestion is to stop feeding this troll.

People like their chew toys. Makes for good practice.

(July 28, 2022 at 9:15 pm)Billy Bob Wrote:

(July 28, 2022 at 12:19 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: The "Fine tuning" argument is around the range of possible physical constants, and the proposal that most of that potential parameter space could not lead to any sort of life (not just life as we know it).  If there is no physical "reason" for the current values of physical constants, then they must have been chosen by a god.

It is a good question.  Possible answers are that what appear to be "free parameters" in physics are not free at all, or that there is a multiverse where different physics applies in different regions or versions (and only habitable universes will have creatures asking these questions).

Of course, if it were a god designing the universe, why is it so hostile to life?  We might be the only intelligent civilization in our galaxy at present.  It certainly doesn't seem designed for life.

"Possible answers are that what appear to be "free parameters" in physics are not free at all,"

Well give evidence they were not free. If you want to say it was possible, give evidence for it. Or, can you say anything you want with no evidence to back it?

"or that there is a multiverse where different physics applies in different regions or versions (and only habitable universes will have creatures asking these questions)."

Do supply evidence for your multiverse. There's a reason I brought up in my first comment in this thread, those that object to science only have science fiction to resort to, and that's precisely what you are doing. You can do that with anything, like 2 + 2 = 4. You can say that it's possible that the math parameters only appear to make it look like the answer is 4. Or that in another universe it equals 45,892. 


"Of course, if it were a god designing the universe, why is it so hostile to life?"

If it were "so hostile to life" then why do we have life on this earth? YOU tell me how we got life on this earth. We clearly DO have life on this earth so tell me how it got here on its own. Can you answer anything because this thread is titled "Why does science always upstage God?" and none of you can supply such science at ALL. 

"We might be the only intelligent civilization in our galaxy at present."

Oh, here's another one; how did we get intelligence? Intelligence is informational and information is immaterial so information only comes from intelligence. So if you want to flatter yourself that you are part of this intelligent civilization explain how we got information, how we got life, and how we got reproduction to become a civilization. Then again, I'm still waiting for science how we even got this universe on its own.

Small correction, Some of us got intelligent, Some like yourself well....

(July 28, 2022 at 11:47 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:

(July 28, 2022 at 6:26 am)Billy Bob Wrote: Hey, read the thread title and stop crying. I'm giving science that supports God and NONE of you can give science that refutes me to back up your claim, 'Why does science always upstage God?' 

"If it's inside the universe, the JWT or the Hubble should be able to spot it."

What is it seeing? Is it seeing nothing? It's seeing something. How did that something get there on its own? I showed that it could not happen on its own. So you all go crying how we don't know how as you ignore science. It's the typical atheistic two-step. I showed other things too that NO ONE can get around such as the fine-tuning, how we got life and even how we got human sexual reproduction. You're all stuck.

Hello again.

So, could you refresh what your 'Proof points' were? It'll make any of my further replies to you a tad easier.

Also, you giving points towards a deity in no way means people have to refute a deity. People just have to be accepting of your proofs which, so far, do not seem to be the case. You're kind of engaging in, if not a fallacy, then at least a non existent dichotomy.

As for your referring to 'Something happening on its own'?
Are you aware of nuclear fission? Where unstable atoms spontaneously and totally randomly fall apart?
How about Hawking Radiation? The principal (Bolstered by Roger Penrose's work) that from simple 'Space time' quantum fluctuations cause virtual atoms to pop in and out of existence. That at the extreme reality bending area of a black hole's event horizon the forces involved make said virtual particles become 'Real'?
A third thing, if you're a "Free will" proponent, is that your 'Free will' must come from nothing. As in one moment you don't have an impulse about or to do something and the next 'Pop!' you do.

Then there's the 'Fine tuning' thing. Where?
The Earth sits in a zone along with Venus and Mars that we're pretty sure allow for liquid water under an atmosphere. So we're one out of three there.
Then there's the orbit of the Earth which meanders over a few million miles per orbit, hence effecting the temperature for all involved just a little bit.
Followed by the wobble in the Earth's rotation that screws with things just a little bit more.
Then you've got the constant flexing of the Earth by the Moon as it meanders back and forth in its orbit heating the place up and causing tectonic shifts, earthquakes, volcanoes.....
The list of things 'Out of whack' in the system just goes on and on and on..... Would you like to know more?

Finally, as for the whole 'Sex' thing? Yah, biologists are pretty sure they know when THAT revolution kicked off and advanced life wasn't really on the scene for a few billion years to come.

Soooo.... take your time processing my reply. Have fun sorting through things. Have a musical day.

Cheers.

Not at work.

"Also, you giving points towards a deity in no way means people have to refute a deity."

I hate to burst your bubble but I didn't start this thread, "Why does science always upstage God?" See, God was the topic to begin with and how science always upstages God. I brought in science that showed things had to be done supernaturally and NOT ONE of you can get around what I gave. So go hurl your lies at someone else silly enough to take it. You're a bunch of lying whiners unable to defend your position that YOU all started.

"People just have to be accepting of your proofs which, so far, do not seem to be the case."

Of my proofs?! You're actually serious?! I give BASIC science that I didn't make up. If they don't want to accept, they sure can't give ANY evidence why. Oh, but that would be honest and you hate being honest.

"You're kind of engaging in, if not a fallacy, then at least a non existent dichotomy."

Well liar, if it were fallacy someone would have been able to give evidence for that which you were free to copy and paste it but you're too busy lying. Nothing new to this forum with your group.

"As for your referring to 'Something happening on its own'?
Are you aware of nuclear fission? Where unstable atoms spontaneously and totally randomly fall apart?
How about Hawking Radiation? The principal (Bolstered by Roger Penrose's work) that from simple 'Space time' quantum fluctuations cause virtual atoms to pop in and out of existence. That at the extreme reality bending area of a black hole's event horizon the forces involved make said virtual particles become 'Real'?"

Can you read? If you could you'd see I already addressed much of this, but you're too busy lying about me and never looking at what I truly gave. You're a joke like the rest of the people here. I've covered this well already but for fun I'll give just a tiny bit for lying you.

"Are you aware of nuclear fission?"

I CLEARLY showed that we can't get anything on its own. So tell me, you liar and non-thinker, since you want to ignore what I gave already and lie about it, do tell me how nothing, meaning no thing, meaning no space, matter, and time, had "nuclear fission." Show that at least a small portion of your brain functions and tell me how that can be. Sure seems obvious to me that you are starting with space, matter, and time already there with NO explanation how and I clearly gave science that such things can't come about on their own that you mentioned right before you brought up your nuclear fission.....so how is it that you 'thought' nuclear fission is somehow an answer to how we got this all from nothing? Does anyone on this forum think besides me? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone where I'm the only person who thinks and is honest.

(July 28, 2022 at 1:42 pm)Angrboda Wrote: I don't know if the universe was fine-tuned for life, but atheist forums are fine-tuned for theist trolls.

"I don't know if the universe was fine-tuned for life"

I've shown you clearly don't know a LOT of things except for lying. THAT you know well. You must be proud.

"but atheist forums are fine-tuned for theist trolls."

You could have made it a private party but since others are invited and I'm sticking to the topic, go cry and lie to someone else.

(July 28, 2022 at 8:41 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 28, 2022 at 8:30 pm)Billy Bob Wrote: Nope, that didn't get around the science I gave either. Yawn.

You don’t understand the science or what it implies. This is at the heart of your sad, pathetic confusion. 

Boru

"You don’t understand the science or what it implies. This is at the heart of your sad, pathetic confusion."

Well, since I wrote it in my FIRST comment and have mentioned it many times, you can just keep on lying since it's all you people can do. You sure don't have any science so lying and science fiction are your only resources.

Here's my first comment again, you liar....

Evidence points to nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. It must be observable, repeatable, and falsifiable. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This (the 1LT and 2LT) all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the doubters resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We know these laws and have NO doubts about them.

You poor little brain liar, you hate it when I showed often what science is...Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. It must be observable, repeatable, and falsifiable.

(July 28, 2022 at 9:00 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: My suggestion is to stop feeding this troll.

Now I'm a troll. You can't come up with any science so you need to call me a troll. You're funny but in a bad way.

(July 28, 2022 at 9:28 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(July 28, 2022 at 9:15 pm)Billy Bob Wrote: "Possible answers are that what appear to be "free parameters" in physics are not free at all,"

Well give evidence they were not free. If you want to say it was possible, give evidence for it. Or, can you say anything you want with no evidence to back it?

"or that there is a multiverse where different physics applies in different regions or versions (and only habitable universes will have creatures asking these questions)."

Do supply evidence for your multiverse. There's a reason I brought up in my first comment in this thread, those that object to science only have science fiction to resort to, and that's precisely what you are doing. You can do that with anything, like 2 + 2 = 4. You can say that it's possible that the math parameters only appear to make it look like the answer is 4. Or that in another universe it equals 45,892. 


"Of course, if it were a god designing the universe, why is it so hostile to life?"

If it were "so hostile to life" then why do we have life on this earth? YOU tell me how we got life on this earth. We clearly DO have life on this earth so tell me how it got here on its own. Can you answer anything because this thread is titled "Why does science always upstage God?" and none of you can supply such science at ALL. 

"We might be the only intelligent civilization in our galaxy at present."

Oh, here's another one; how did we get intelligence? Intelligence is informational and information is immaterial so information only comes from intelligence. So if you want to flatter yourself that you are part of this intelligent civilization explain how we got information, how we got life, and how we got reproduction to become a civilization. Then again, I'm still waiting for science how we even got this universe on its own.

Small correction, Some of us got intelligent, Some like yourself well....

Sooooooo typical of the tiny brain people on this forum, all that I brought up was somehow answered with....

"Small correction, Some of us got intelligent, Some like yourself well...."

Wow, it didn't get around anything I gave but don't let that bother you since it's never bothered anyone before. Just make senseless replies since it is all you can do. Who could blame you? Senseless people can only make senseless replies. There, you have your legit excuse.

(July 28, 2022 at 9:56 pm)Billy Bob Wrote:

(July 28, 2022 at 9:28 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Small correction, Some of us got intelligent, Some like yourself well....

Sooooooo typical of the tiny brain people on this forum, all that I brought up was somehow answered with....

"Small correction, Some of us got intelligent, Some like yourself well...."

Wow, it didn't get around anything I gave but don't let that bother you since it's never bothered anyone before. Just make senseless replies since it is all you can do. Who could blame you? Senseless people can only make senseless replies. There, you have your legit excuse.

You seem pressed and a little unhinged

I will pray for you.

RAmen