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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 20, 2022 at 3:53 pm
(August 20, 2022 at 3:19 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (August 20, 2022 at 2:24 pm)LazaB Wrote: Well exactly that , that there is no current explanation and that we can hope that one day science will have the answer , until then we can only say that we don't know ( we can guess based on logic and reason , but it's still just guesswork ).
Why do you think the burden of proof exists at all to explain anything that is outside the realm of observation and/or experiment? Besides, there are literally thousands of controlled psychological experiments that offer purely naturalistic explanations for hallucinations, both individual and collective experiences.
" Why do you think the burden of proof exists at all to explain anything that is outside the realm of observation and/or experiment? "
Because it is interesting and we don't even understand collective hallucinations that well , the miracle of the sun for example is an laughable example because " "not only did all those present not see the phenomenon, but also there are considerable inconsistencies among witnesses as to what they did see " , so that is not the same as the whole family seeing their dead grandmother for months in their apartment and they all agree down to the details , or two people seeing a young boy go though a wall and they even agree on the details of the child's old fashioned clothes and many similar examples , i hate being the one who seems to be pushing the supernatural explanation because honestly i am not , i am just saying that to pretend that we have a clear answer is dishonest.
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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 20, 2022 at 4:26 pm
(August 20, 2022 at 3:53 pm)LazaB Wrote: (August 20, 2022 at 3:19 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Why do you think the burden of proof exists at all to explain anything that is outside the realm of observation and/or experiment? Besides, there are literally thousands of controlled psychological experiments that offer purely naturalistic explanations for hallucinations, both individual and collective experiences.
" Why do you think the burden of proof exists at all to explain anything that is outside the realm of observation and/or experiment? "
Because it is interesting and we don't even understand collective hallucinations that well , the miracle of the sun for example is an laughable example because " "not only did all those present not see the phenomenon, but also there are considerable inconsistencies among witnesses as to what they did see " , so that is not the same as the whole family seeing their dead grandmother for months in their apartment and they all agree down to the details , or two people seeing a young boy go though a wall and they even agree on the details of the child's old fashioned clothes and many similar examples , i hate being the one who seems to be pushing the supernatural explanation because honestly i am not , i am just saying that to pretend that we have a clear answer is dishonest.
As for a whole family seeing a dead relative, again, they can have individual experiences which they combine later on. Or, you may have a dominant individual or two who is convincing others to see things with their "spiritual eye". The example that you provide is simply an example of cultish behavior, one that is widely described and documented.
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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 20, 2022 at 8:27 pm
(August 20, 2022 at 2:24 pm)LazaB Wrote: (August 20, 2022 at 2:17 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Well, it's not clear that you understood my point, but regardless, let's cut to the chase: what do you think you should conclude if there is no explanation?
Well exactly that , that there is no current explanation and that we can hope that one day science will have the answer , until then we can only say that we don't know ( we can guess based on logic and reason , but it's still just guesswork ).
Well, then, are there things that we can know to be true to 100% certainty, not just about this, but about anything?
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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 21, 2022 at 3:46 am
(August 20, 2022 at 8:27 pm)Angrboda Wrote: (August 20, 2022 at 2:24 pm)LazaB Wrote: Well exactly that , that there is no current explanation and that we can hope that one day science will have the answer , until then we can only say that we don't know ( we can guess based on logic and reason , but it's still just guesswork ).
Well, then, are there things that we can know to be true to 100% certainty, not just about this, but about anything?
We can't really be certain about almost anything , but there are different levels of certainty for different thing , we know that evolution is 100% fact , we know that babies are born and they are not being delivered by storks , and we can give many examples for which we have varying levels of certainty , but these sightings are just not something we know almost anything about ( and the reason is that it can't really be tested and it's all anecdotal , but almost every family around the world has at least one story about something weird happening ( from seeing shadows and hearing noises to multiple people seeing the same thing that should not or could not be there )).
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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 21, 2022 at 8:33 am
(August 21, 2022 at 3:46 am)LazaB Wrote: (August 20, 2022 at 8:27 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Well, then, are there things that we can know to be true to 100% certainty, not just about this, but about anything?
We can't really be certain about almost anything , but there are different levels of certainty for different thing , we know that evolution is 100% fact , we know that babies are born and they are not being delivered by storks , and we can give many examples for which we have varying levels of certainty , but these sightings are just not something we know almost anything about ( and the reason is that it can't really be tested and it's all anecdotal , but almost every family around the world has at least one story about something weird happening ( from seeing shadows and hearing noises to multiple people seeing the same thing that should not or could not be there )).
Thousands of examples exist daily in clinical and other institutional settings of human beings claiming to see things that are not there.
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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 21, 2022 at 9:15 am
(August 21, 2022 at 8:33 am)Jehanne Wrote: (August 21, 2022 at 3:46 am)LazaB Wrote: We can't really be certain about almost anything , but there are different levels of certainty for different thing , we know that evolution is 100% fact , we know that babies are born and they are not being delivered by storks , and we can give many examples for which we have varying levels of certainty , but these sightings are just not something we know almost anything about ( and the reason is that it can't really be tested and it's all anecdotal , but almost every family around the world has at least one story about something weird happening ( from seeing shadows and hearing noises to multiple people seeing the same thing that should not or could not be there )).
Thousands of examples exist daily in clinical and other institutional settings of human beings claiming to see things that are not there.
And i don't care about those examples , but when multiple people claim to have seen the same thing at the same time ( without any drugs , without expecting miracles , without eye irritation and so on ) then i get interested and there is no satisfactory explanation.
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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 21, 2022 at 10:42 am
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2022 at 10:43 am by The Grand Nudger.)
There are many satisfactory explanations (and, fwiw, there would have to be, since mass hallucinations and/or delusions are not all identical events). You, for whatever reason, prefer an explanation where some unaccounted for x is at play.
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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 21, 2022 at 10:51 am
(August 21, 2022 at 9:15 am)LazaB Wrote: (August 21, 2022 at 8:33 am)Jehanne Wrote: Thousands of examples exist daily in clinical and other institutional settings of human beings claiming to see things that are not there.
And i don't care about those examples , but when multiple people claim to have seen the same thing at the same time ( without any drugs , without expecting miracles , without eye irritation and so on ) then i get interested and there is no satisfactory explanation.
What is the answer that you want? One of us can type it back at you and we can be done with this dumbfuckery.
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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 21, 2022 at 11:15 am
(August 21, 2022 at 10:51 am)arewethereyet Wrote: (August 21, 2022 at 9:15 am)LazaB Wrote: And i don't care about those examples , but when multiple people claim to have seen the same thing at the same time ( without any drugs , without expecting miracles , without eye irritation and so on ) then i get interested and there is no satisfactory explanation.
What is the answer that you want? One of us can type it back at you and we can be done with this dumbfuckery.
Some condition where multiple people can be in a room and hallucinate the same person at the same time without expecting it ( without waiting for miracles where people see what they want to see ) and without being on drugs.
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RE: Can multiple people hallucinate the same thing at the same time ?
August 21, 2022 at 11:52 am
(August 21, 2022 at 9:15 am)LazaB Wrote: (August 21, 2022 at 8:33 am)Jehanne Wrote: Thousands of examples exist daily in clinical and other institutional settings of human beings claiming to see things that are not there.
And i don't care about those examples , but when multiple people claim to have seen the same thing at the same time ( without any drugs , without expecting miracles , without eye irritation and so on ) then i get interested and there is no satisfactory explanation.
No, there are satisfactory explanations -- you just won't consider them, namely, documented behavior in religious cults.
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