Remember you should roll over and let Violent lunatics run rampant and not do anything about it and in fact, you should reward them ......

Oh and if you show any concern about any of this you are a warmonger because America and Suadi's do bad stuff so terrorist groups can simply be ignored....

(August 20, 2022 at 6:31 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(August 19, 2022 at 6:06 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I keep hearing he's frail, but imagine the upper body and stamina it takes to personally starve millions of people.

Let's run with that, though, its pretty bad to do bad shit to people.  Should we give people who do bad shit to people some money?

It's always fear mongering over terrorism with you. The sky is falling and you need to fear the whites because of terrorism. Fear the browns because of terrorism, while your country gives billions to and sells arms to the biggest funder of terrorism in the Saudis.

Back to huffing that white supremacist paint, eh?  Correct.   The Whites...and not The Browns, saudi or otherwise, are the most prolific terrorists in north america.  Always have been.  Domestics have the benefit of access.  You make a good point, though, should we be funding the suadis? Is it bad, or something?

Quote:The Taliban gave Al Qaeda safe haven and you killed hundreds of thousands of their citizens as revenge. Sounds like a fair trade off and we can call it even at this point. Deal? If the US was that worried about terrorism coming out of Afghanistan, they probably wouldn't have pulled out in the first place. This is not a real concern. It's a bullshit virtue signalling against terrorism which is of no threat to you and yours, or Europe and theirs.

Too true, the reich wing created a pretty absurd pretext for war - pumped up the white supremacist paint fume factory - and then..when they inevitably failed, pretended they never knew her...and further, it was those other guys that did it!  The other guys were happy to play their part, too.  There's something Biden actually fucked up on, following through with trumps agreement to abandon the afghan people to the taliban.  

Quote:You're trying to give a purity test to a third world country that is poor as shit and hasn't advanced yet as much as our society has. We should expect them to be immoral as fuck with the conditions they are living in. The US military left the place so Afghanistan could try to make something of their own. We knew the Taliban would be in charge and we made peace with them. "But... but...but... they're the Taliban!" is not an argument you can use anymore. We knowingly handed over the place to them, and after we've fucked their place up so bad, we owe it to them to not only take in refugees and all of that, but we owe it to them to not steal their shit that they need to eat and not die.

Technically we stayed so that afghanistan could try to make something of their own - but, in the end, the american will to see that through just couldn't go the distance - so we gave it to the guys currently fucking it up, instead. If we owe those things to those people, might it also be incumbent upon us not to fund the people currently shitting on them? Would that be bad, or something?

So you and Helios wanted to stay in Afghanistan for 20 more years, eh? And I thought I was supposed to be the white imperialist colonizer stan. When did we switch roles? How am I the one defending the browns and you the one defending the great Satan?

You think a war against the Taliban is winnable? They have greater numbers now than they did 20 years ago, so what do you expect 20 more years of war to accomplish?

20 years, 200. As long as it takes, right? Particularly if we have some responsibility to the folks involved. Do we....?

Do I think that a war with the taliban is winnable? I know it is, because the war against the taliban was won. It's just adding insult to injury propping them back up again. There was never any real doubt that they'd shit on the agreement that put them back into power. Lo and behold, the leader of aq sunbathing in kabul, eh. Women and girls back where they were - in their proper place. Boys and young men being groomed for jihad. This, after..as you rightly note, 20 years of other realities and expectations. Whole generation growing up. What could possibly go wrong for the good people of afghanistan, to whom we owe a debt?

I think if you'd really thought this through, you'd realize there's no oxygen in the room for you. I think that it's a good idea to finish what you start, and to keep your promises - sure. However, if that's not the right thing to do, and the right thing to do is cut and run and then prop up the taliban....as you insist...well, that is what we actually did......

So...what's the problem, again?

(August 21, 2022 at 10:50 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: 20 years, 200.  As long as it takes, right?  Particularly if we have some responsibility to the folks involved.  Do we....?

Do I think that a war with the taliban is winnable?  I know it is, because the war against the taliban was won.  It's just adding insult to injury propping them back up again.  There was never any real doubt that they'd shit on the agreement that put them back into power.  Lo and behold, the leader of aq sunbathing in kabul, eh.  Women and girls back where they were - in their proper place.  Boys and young men being groomed for jihad.  This, after..as you rightly note, 20 years of other realities and expectations.  Whole generation growing up.  What could possibly go wrong for the good people of afghanistan, to whom we owe a debt?

No, the US is not responsible for them, but taking in refugees is still the humane thing to do. You're not responsible for funding Afghanistan or helping them in any way, but this was their money and you stole it. Just because you're not responsible for them, doesn't mean it's cool to starve and steal from the people that were already barely keeping things together as it was. So you pretend to hate the police but you actually want to police the entire world, eh? Where do you want to occupy next? Iran sound cool? The war on terrorism is like the war on drugs. There is no winning, and there is no end in sight. A decade and a half of the US occupying the middle east and overthrowing Libya and other places and what did it get you? ISIS still rose up. Who's to say the same won't happen in ten years? There is a never ending supply of young Muslim men who will feel a dedication to their faith and their fellow Muslims in distress around the world. Terrorism is simply not something that can be stomped out. All you did by going to Afghanistan was help the Taliban grow in numbers. All you did in Iraq was embolden more people to become terrorists with your occupation and drone strikes which result in killing around 90 % civilians if I'm remembering right. YOU were and are the ones grooming the terrorists with your presence in their homelands.

Saying that something is the humane thing to do is to assert that a people x have a humane responsibility to y, all the same. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree as to whether or not the us assumed the responsibility of governance and infrastructure to the afghan people when we systematically eradicated their civil authority for refusing to cough up a terrorist.

You're probably unaware, being Canadian and all, but the us police force has less training, less accountability, and a looser roe than us occupation forces do. That's one of the problems..I see, with the us police forces. Militarized, but not military. To my mind, it's a way to make a bad situation even worse. You don't want the military in your neighborhood, or in afghanistans neighborhood.....so why would you want the police forces we have in anyones neighborhood. Right?

I think the war on terrorism and the war on drugs are/were both garbage. In fact, because of how garbage they were, our institutions are now responsible, at least in part, for the victims of both here and abroad. But maybe not, maybe we can discharge that duty to perdue and the taliban - throw em some cash. They'll probably do right....right?

You ask what these sorts of interventions got me? Nothing but bad dreams and fucked up legs - but..then again...I didn't get into it thinking it would get me something. I was a soldier, and peacekeeper....not a raider, lol. Is that all we did? Would that be a bad thing? Why? Terrorism is just a fact, and we should give them money - not that we owe them anything. Right?

-But all that's just for fun. Here it is. Here's Biden and leftists fucking up. Abandoning the afghan people with full knowledge of their fate in that event beforehand. Small potatoes. What are the queers doing to the soil!

(August 21, 2022 at 11:16 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Saying that something is the humane thing to do is to assert that a people x have a humane responsibility to y, all the same.  I think we'll just have to agree to disagree as to whether or not the us assumed the responsibility of governance and infrastructure to the afghan people when we systematically eradicated their civil authority for refusing to cough up a terrorist.

You're probably unaware, being Canadian and all, but the us police force has less training, less accountability, and a looser roe than us occupation forces do.  That's one of the problems..I see, with the us police forces.  Militarized, but not military.  To my mind, it's a way to make a bad situation even worse.  You don't want the military in your neighborhood, or in afghanistans neighborhood.....so why would you want the police forces we have in anyones neighborhood.  Right?

I think the war on terrorism and the war on drugs are/were both garbage.  In fact, because of how garbage they were, our institutions are now responsible, at least in part, for the victims of both here and abroad.  But maybe not, maybe we can discharge that duty to perdue and the taliban - throw em some cash.  They'll probably do right....right?

You ask what these sorts of interventions got me?  Nothing but bad dreams and fucked up legs - but..then again...I didn't get into it thinking it would get me something.  I was a soldier, and  peacekeeper....not a raider, lol.  Is that all we did?  Would that be a bad thing?  Why?  Terrorism is just a fact, and we should give them money - not that we owe them anything.  Right?

-But all that's just for fun.  Here it is.  Here's Biden and leftists fucking up.  Abandoning the afghan people with full knowledge of their fate in that event beforehand.  Small potatoes.  What are the queers doing to the soil!

If I were to admit that taking in refugees means that I think we are responsible for them, then that is the case because taking in refugees is actually easy peasy to accomplish. The West can easily do that, but we can't fix their shithole countries. Tried it. It didn't go well.

Yes, the military is far better trained than the US police, but all the training in the world can't prevent drone strikes from killing 90 % civilians, and if a mans family is blown up by a drone strike, what do you expect him to do other than become an extremist who now wants to work against you and join the people you are fighting?

I wasn't asking what the intervention got you personally. I was referring to the USA and the other Western countries that took part in these wars. Like I've posted before, I respect your service and the sacrifice you made getting injured. Unless soldiers are going around raping people or doing what they did at Abu Ghraib, I don't hold you or anyone else responsible for doing a job.

(August 21, 2022 at 11:47 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: If I were to admit that taking in refugees means that I think we are responsible for them, then that is the case because taking in refugees is actually easy peasy to accomplish. The West can easily do that, but we can't fix their shithole countries. Tried it. It didn't go well.

Did we?  Or did we try to colonize their shithole countries?  It's useful to keep your talking points segregated.  They don't mix well.

Quote:Yes, the military is far better trained than the US police, but all the training in the world can't prevent drone strikes from killing 90 % civilians, and if a mans family is blown up by a drone strike, what do you expect him to do other than become an extremist who now wants to work against you and join the people you are fighting?

How much time you got to hear how many ways I hate drones?  But...honestly, who cares if drones kill 90% civilians, and if thats terrorism.  Terrrorism is just a rationalizable and thoroughly justifiable fact.  Stop virtue signaling about american terrorism.  

Quote:I wasn't asking what the intervention got you personally. I was referring to the USA and the other Western countries that took part in these wars. Like I've posted before, I respect your service and the sacrifice you made getting injured. Unless soldiers are going around raping people or doing what they did at Abu Ghraib, I don't hold you or anyone else responsible for doing a job.

We got a big ole bill.  I guess..sometimes..even nations can do things knowing that there isn't much..if anything...in it for them.  Case in point, nutballs convinced the us body public that not only was there nothing in it for them, in afghanistan, the bill for satisfying our responsibilities towards others..in afghnaistan.... was simply too high.  Therefore, we would walk.  

Is that a bad thing....?

(August 21, 2022 at 11:47 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: If I were to admit that taking in refugees means that I think we are responsible for them, then that is the case because taking in refugees is actually easy peasy to accomplish. The West can easily do that, but we can't fix their shithole countries. Tried it. It didn't go well.

Oh, the "shithole countries" - using Trump's lingo I see.

Do you maybe have a list of those "shithole countries", so that we know to avoid them and people from there?

Quote:So you and Helios wanted to stay in Afghanistan for 20 more years, eh? And I thought I was supposed to be the white imperialist colonizer stan. When did we switch roles? How am I the one defending the browns and you the one defending the great Satan?

Helping a country develop and rebuild is not the same as colonialism and your politics as a white nationalist bootlicker is beyond doubt. If it took 20 or 100 years to help the Afgan people develop into a stable modern democracy then so be it. If that was our obligation to do so.

Quote:You think a war against the Taliban is winnable? They have greater numbers now than they did 20 years ago, so what do you expect 20 more years of war to accomplish?

We did win. So much so that we had to rebuild them so they could function. This is unfortunate but it's better than a total power vacuum but that doesn't mean we should trust them for a heartbeat as they are the same band of thugs they always were. As for what we accomplished in Afghanistan ask any young girl in that country.....